But how well does a rear-wheel car do in the snow?

Post #23,493 by admin 1/8/02 11:47:45 AM Reply	But how well does a rear-wheel car do in the snow? Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #23,495 by boxley 1/8/02 11:53:50 AM Reply	with posi rearend much better than front wheel drive I have extensive experience with both, also I prefer to disconnect the ABS as sharp turns on glare ice is easier to accomplish with hard braking. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #23,496 by admin 1/8/02 11:55:32 AM Reply	That seems counter-intuitive. As the front-wheel drive car has all the weight over the wheels. How does it compare to 4WD? Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #23,500 by boxley 1/8/02 12:03:20 PM Reply	4 wheel drive is geared towards additional traction in deep snow somewhat useless in glare ice situations. Yes the weight is over the wheels but the turn radius is much larger. Traction in rear wheel vehicles is sufficient except in hub deep snow where 4 wheel is better. Studs or chains on a rearwheel will give all the traction you need with better manueverability. thanx, bill 4 wheel drive a way of saying stuck deeper and further. My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #23,511 by admin 1/8/02 1:12:32 PM Reply	OK, that makes sense. What I have to deal with here is no snow on the main roads, and typically 6" to 1 foot in the subdivision. Since I can't stop to put chains on and studs are illegal here, from what you're telling me a 4WD would work best. In my experience, the traction of my RWD Mustang is not sufficient in any snow. The FWD minivan does much better in our subdivision. I'm not concerned about sliding and the like. I'm concerned about not getting stuck over and over again (like last year) in my subdivision. :-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #23,518 by boxley 1/8/02 1:30:04 PM Reply	no studs and >1ft snow low subd speeds? All wheel drive My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #23,523 by Another Scott 1/8/02 2:11:37 PM Reply	Tires and Torque. Hi Scott, In my experience, the traction of my RWD Mustang is not sufficient in any snow. The FWD minivan does much better in our subdivision. Apples and oranges. :-) Your Mustang probably has wider "performance" tires while your minivan has narrower all-season tires. Your Mustang has lots more torque than your MV. And, your Mustang has little weight on the driving tires while the MV has lots. If your Mustang is a manual transmission car and while your MV is an automatic, that makes a difference too. It's not just FWD vs RWD. :-) Tires make a big difference as stories in Car and Driver and the like make clear. [link\|http://www.hehd.clemson.edu/PRTM/special/GH/Drive.htm\|Here's] a nice cheat-sheet on driving on snow. [link\|http://www.epinions.com/content_41628634756\|Here's] an epinions piece talking about the wonders of Blizzak snow tires on a 1995 Mustang in Michigan. Cheers, Scott.
Post #23,524 by admin 1/8/02 2:23:16 PM Reply	Not necessarily. Your Mustang probably has wider "performance" tires while your minivan has narrower all-season tires. Somewhat wider, yes, but the same BF Goodrich All Season Radials. :-) When there is so much snow that even narrow tires don't reach the pavement, or the pavement underneath is ice, the wider tires should actually do better. Your Mustang has lots more torque than your MV. Very true, but I know better than to torque the tires in the snow. I tend to start off in second gear during the winter. And, your Mustang has little weight on the driving tires while the MV has lots. Which is a function of RWD vs. FWD. If your Mustang is a manual transmission car and while your MV is an automatic, that makes a difference too. Yes, the manual should be easier to drive in the snow due to the greater control over the application of power. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #23,525 by boxley 1/8/02 2:27:58 PM Reply	dumb question, sandbags in the trunk? My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #23,528 by admin 1/8/02 2:49:02 PM Reply	Hatchback. Good way to get decapitated in an accident. :-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #23,545 by CRConrad 1/8/02 5:18:41 PM Reply	No it ain't... A Scott: [Quoting another:] And, your Mustang has little weight on the driving tires while the MV has lots. Which is a function of RWD vs. FWD. Naah: The Porsche 911 is rear-wheel-drive, and it's got most of its weight on the driving wheels. Pedantically yours, Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #23,547 by admin 1/8/02 5:21:14 PM Reply	Pedantic indeed. For most of the RWD vehicles that I'm ever likely to drive, then. :-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #23,510 by inthane-chan 1/8/02 1:12:18 PM Reply	I don't know about 4wd... ...but I too prefer a rear-wheel drive Volvo station wagon to a front-wheel drive US car. A few years ago, we had one of those city-wide shutdowns - 1.5 feet of snow on everything. Nobody went anywhere, and those who did generally got stuck. Except for me. My wife was working at a group home as a caregiver for people with cerebral palsy, and nobody could get there because the cars kept getting stuck. So I drove her there and back, over and over, along with the rest of the staff, for the week it took to unbury the city. The key to driving a rwd vehicle is that you're driving a boat, not a car, when it's snowy or icy. The car continues in motion in the direction you were headed instead of instantly turning. As long as you remember that, you don't have that much of a problem. Also, not having to worry about snow drifts is quite handy. If you drive into something that you can't get through, you just back out of it. With fwd, you're stuck. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #23,512 by admin 1/8/02 1:15:19 PM Reply	Doesn't jibe with my experience. My RWD car gets stuck in snow all the time. And our driveway is 1) inclined fairly steeply and 2) has no straight shot -- corner lot, two quick turns to get into it then up the hill. The FWD minivan has no problems at all with the same driveway. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #23,505 by CRConrad 1/8/02 12:42:29 PM Reply	If you're used to it (and careful), it's manageable. People here can do it, because that's what they've always done. (And of course it helps that we have pretty competent plowing-and-sanding crews, too.) But of course in the absolute majority of situations, front- (or even better, four-) -wheel-drive is better, in winter conditions. Sorry, the Ox is blowing smoke: Sure, you can get sharper turns on shiny ice with the (rear-wheel) hand brake in stead of the ABS system -- but just how desirable is the ability to do a pirouette on ice, and exactly how often do situations where it is, occur? Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #23,507 by boxley 1/8/02 12:47:16 PM Reply	Not the handbrake, remove the ABS fuse you are on glare ice needing to make a left at an intersection, you turn the wheel, nothing happens you are still travelling forward. You brake hard turn wheel all the way release brake and vehicle pivots in the direction of travel. With abs you cannot get a "lock" condition so it doesnt work as well. In Sweden and other northern climbs, plowing and sanding is done regularly. In Alaska it is considered an option behind everything else you could think of. My tenants have told me that the street has not seen a plow or a grader yet this winter despite lots of snow rain and freezes. My house in in the middle (sort of ) the city in a regular neighborhood. They said last year the road was only plowed once. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #23,509 by CRConrad 1/8/02 1:05:45 PM Reply	"[Y]ou turn the wheel, nothing happens"; y'know what that... ...means? It means you're going to fast for the conditions, that's what. BRRRPPHT, sorry, this participant is disqualified for violating Rule One! And if, for once, by mistake, you happen to get into a "you turn the wheel, nothing happens" situation, then you don't need all that lock-all-the-wheels tomfoolery that would require disabling the ABS anyway -- just declutch, and you're free-rolling jut the same whether your car is RWD or FWD... Ooooh, I see: ...As long as it's manual-clutched! That's the problem, I think: You guys have to resort to fiddling with the safety equipment, because you insist on buying cars without real gear boxes and clutches. I'll revise my recommendation: Learn to shift and dump the stupid auto, in stead. Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #23,514 by admin 1/8/02 1:18:01 PM Reply	Agreement there If you're sliding, you're going too quickly. As I said elsewhere, I need to not get stuck, not have better handling on ice. WRT to a manual transmission, that's what I drive now. Unfortunately, my wife is incapable of learning a stick shift (it's a basic miswiring in her brain, not will to learn), so my next car has to be automatic so she can use it if necessary. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #23,517 by boxley 1/8/02 1:28:39 PM Reply	get into a parking lot try it and report back If you are on glare ice 5mph is often 2 fast. Turn wheel, nothing happens is momentum in the direction of travel due to slickness, tapping the brake is easier than dragging the shifter down a notch, yes I prefer manually shifted cars but my wife certainly does not and agree manuals are decidedly safer to drive. thats why the common name for an aurtomatic is a slushbox. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #23,542 by CRConrad 1/8/02 5:06:40 PM Reply	Ah, I see: Good only down to "Slush" on the thermometer! :-)

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