Post #212,367
6/23/05 10:58:04 PM
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Straw Dog___ Pshaw.
There are extreme slogans on every complex matter, prepackaged.
{sheesh}
Mine isn't; I favor most-all animals over the dominant twits that are fucking up the place for all lifeforms known and undiscovered. Thought that was obvious, by now. Screw your straw dog hyperbole. I'd trust a certain wolf named Ivan, especially if "in trouble" - over a squadron of Fatherland Security drones with those safe Tazer thingies. .. But Ivan was not left to grow-up FERAL (or just potty-trained). Either. And it took Lots of Intelligent Work <<<
for him to retain his natural wolf-ness and still be a sweetheart.
This Training IS NOT OPTIONAL for anyone trying to make a 'pet' of a sometimes-aggressive animal.
(Of course, I'm cheating: anyone who knows shit about 'wolf culture', grokking just a bit of the complexity of their society - realizes that they are admirably 'civil' when compared with most homo-sap $-based counterparts. They are also powerful.)
Among the forever-debatable canine opinions are propositions (probably unProvable via Boolean or other mere logic) like,
some breeds are genetically disposed towards
a) hunting
b) hunting Anything
c) moving viciously; sometimes ameliorated by the condition
c-1) .. once they've reached an emotional state ~~ akin to Spock-in-heat.
Yada.
Since volumes have been written re 'training' and 'conditioning' dogs, and these comprise a wide spectrum of oft-divergent Opinion on all aspects:
I am ~neutral on the nature/nurture generalizations and am sure-enough that, even if genetic: always there will be Pit Bulls who-think-they-are-Cocker-Spaniels / and vice-v.
I've also encountered the Pit-Bull-as-pet + its 'owner', noting the 'carefulness' of their owners and their apparent need to explain to any encounterer:
No .. s'OK ..*He's* ..Nice!
So it's no secret what the general perception has become.
(That owner; nearby .. is an ex-owner, BTW)
As in the case of the also maligned Germen Shepherd, I generally attribute many of these attacks to the fucking-Ignorant buyers of animals as puppies - who fail even to domesticate said beasts, let alone 'train' them in other civilities, when amidst strangers. Another one for rampant dumbth? sloth? Not Giving a Fuck?
Hey baby, neglect of the basics ain't Love.
And the kid who died was around that pair ... all the time.
A woman a couple years back, in SF [ongoing repercussions of That one, still] was attacked by a pair of PB *while the fucking owner* was {unsuccessfully} "holding the leash", until they Went Spock and killed this 30-something woman, who was trying to open the door of her nearby apartment - just as Fang1 Fang2 + Owner emerged from theirs.
Clearly all these animals had spent lots of time in non-Godzilla mode. If there are some dog-bite/dog-kills stats out there.. they will change no one's mind who, like the mother of the dead 12-yo:
spent her entire 'interview' just afterwards, in the Chron.. defending the killer-dog. Said at one point re death of her son, ~ "..when it's your time, it's your time".
I've read of many incidents over the years; know there are also slime who train (many breeds) of dogs to become Human-like killing machines. Should they Pay when their machine fulfills its conditioning? (I think courts, presented with evidence of Human-beast-like conditioning, generally say: Yes.)
But - -
Should those who just played with a puppy, newspaper-'trained' it - which later-on "just went Spock" and killed - be exonerated because it hadn't killed their Local Family Group? Should ___?
Yawanna debate What Might/Should Be 'Done', If Anything\ufffd? or just play the fluffy-bunny card?
'Course - nothing Will be 'Done', after the exchange of homilies.
Especially - no one will pass a bill requiring owners of certain and certainly-suspect breeds to administer any-sort-of 'training' == just pay the bill afterwards, when sued. It's the Murican Way, after all.
Leave an animal feral - it goes with instinct.
Leave a homo-sap feral - it becomes a Repo.
Nothing to be done.
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Post #212,372
6/23/05 11:15:26 PM
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Nit.
Whipple was killed by [link|http://www.ukcdogs.com/breeds/guardiandogs/perrodepresacanario.std.shtml|Presa Canario] dogs, not pit bulls. The UKC page says: The essential characteristics of the Presa are those which enable it to drive and hold cattle, and to guard its home and family. These tasks require a powerful, agile, courageous dog with a large head and powerful jaws. The Presa is extremely affectionate, docile and well behaved with its owner and family, but is wary of strangers and aggressive with other dogs.
Serious Fault: Unstable temperament I'll say... :-( Cheers, Scott.
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Post #212,377
6/23/05 11:38:09 PM
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- Picked. Indeed; similarly sloppy re lumping Rotweilers
with PBs in my particular cache. I figure there are many mixes as add to the ID problem - and the posts above have covered most bases.
$-pain appears to be the only practical deterrent to dumbth+ennui in these parts -- but that prevents Nothing -- just provides pretty unsatisfying revenge.
(I also remember when it was thought a keen idea.. if you could have a leashed ocelot for a pet.)
Fashion / vanity / $$ R US
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Post #212,394
6/24/05 7:02:42 AM
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Nonsense again.
The owner is responsible for what the pet does.
People are more dangerous than these dogs. I guess people can't be loved.
This was a tragedy borne of ignorance, and have no doubt that the owners are responsible - but your characterization of the dog as unlovable by nature was ridiculous. Of COURSE the family losing the dog would be traumatized by both the dog's actions andthe prospect of losing the family pet, which was no doubt loved by the family.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #212,467
6/24/05 4:00:28 PM
6/24/05 4:31:13 PM
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JeezSkip, go READ some stuff on this breed's RECORD, willya?
Like [link|http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/15/BApitbull15.DTL&hw=Chuck+Squatriglia&sn=030&sc=600| THIS one], practically next door to my small oasis far-from the madding crowd.
And [link|http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/16/BAGIUD9FUM1.DTL&hw=Chuck+Squatriglia&sn=028&sc=615| this FOLLOWUP] entitled, Not first time pit bull had bitten family members
Fearful neighbors would stay inside when dog got loose
And, Skip - if you fancy, as is somehow implied.. that.. you are going to teach moi all about love [let alone WTF .. Love might Be-About] -??-
Bring. It. On.
Edited by Ashton
June 24, 2005, 04:31:13 PM EDT
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Post #212,473
6/24/05 4:27:47 PM
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So which part do you disagree with?
That the owners are responsible? That people are more dangerous than dogs? That it was a tragedy of ignorance? the 13 yo 'minder' of the dog threw herself atop 'Smokey' to prevent a shooting I guess the mother MEANT to endanger the son in the other case, as well. Oh that's right. Neither family can have loved the dog. Thou hast spoken. Never mind. --- Now, for the rest of your analogy: - The Neocon junta is a tragedy of ignorance
- the voters of this nation are responsible for putting 'vicious dogs' in a position of dominance
- the people love their 'dogs' and will take real convincing to 'put them down'
BTW, I honestly believe that the meanest dog is still morally superior to most humans.[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #212,476
6/24/05 5:10:51 PM
6/24/05 5:11:35 PM
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No, Ash.
I will not tell you whether you do, or can, know what love is.
Y' see, while I may be arrogant, IMO I don't display the colossal arrogance you did when you implied that the families did not, could not, love the dogs that attacked those kids. I don't see things in black and white; I 'play it all in colors'.
Nor did I defend the choice of pet - it's not the only breed that requires both extra care and training (Chows come to mind). Indeed, I advocate responsibility AS I ALWAYS DO.
Nor did I intend my chiding to become an entire thread, lending more weight to it than it deserved in context.
However -
Your implications about these tragedies were insulting to the families involved, based on the glib summaries that pass for news articles today. That is appalling to me; to me it is akin to the same flaws in humanity that put the current US junta in charge.
IOW, you reserve for yourself the right to judge whether love is real, but you get mighty defensive, mighty fast, if you think that someone might question your judgements.
Humble yourself sometimes. Not always. Just sometimes. Sometimes that POV is instructive.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
Edited by imric
June 24, 2005, 05:11:35 PM EDT
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Post #212,478
6/24/05 5:50:50 PM
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I'll go ~ with 'the meanest dog being superior'
because it's a no-brainer to select WHICH species is the. most. vicious., least responsible .. and drawn to superstitions as EZ full-replacement for the work necessary to preserve the planet from eventual unrecoverable decline - at the bloodied hands of that marauding species of strutting Peacocks and Lying (innate - then refined) Motherfuckers .
You appear to have missed (but imagined, instead) any August Pronouncement du moi - re any *solution* to this conundrum. (That conundrum, BTW ... So Far from the Point of my fucking metaphorical posit.)
ie Only did I suggest.. the likely course, a form of the doggerel which the disturbing stats are apt to catalyze in the tiny-brained majority.
And imply that, most likely? nay.. inevitably:
we Will fail in any effort to protect ignorant and-Happy-that-way masses from playing Murican-roulette with their guns or their Celebrity gun-like-'Pets' .. so oft purchased to bloody-well Show Dem My Attitude! cha cha cha
The faster the tetched-breeds and asinine-owners eat<-->each<-->other - the fewer shall be left voting Repo (while mistaking Repo1 for Gawd). ie to make it all Perfectly Clear, even to you:
SAVE EARTH !!!
BUY / SELL MORE MIXES
as just --love-- to
MUNCH. HOMO-SAPS.
HTH
:-\ufffd
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Post #212,480
6/24/05 6:22:50 PM
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*shrug* Whatever.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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