Post #184,389
11/18/04 2:51:02 AM
11/18/04 2:51:48 AM
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Excuses, excuses, excuses
Now that it is US troops doing the fighting suddenly you have all kinds of excuses about why these things are not so bad and understandable. Imagine if instead that was a picture of an Israeli soldier shooting a Palestinian. Would anyone make excuses that Palestinians are boobytrapping bodies etc? I guarantee you that the US State Department would have denounced the action, the UN Security Council would be called to an emergency session etc. Think back to 2002 and Jenin, what was the reaction of the world including the US? Suddenly you see how it is not so easy to fight a war against people who don't follow the same rules as you.
Edited by bluke
Nov. 18, 2004, 02:51:48 AM EST
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Post #184,413
11/18/04 11:33:52 AM
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What are you looking for?
If the US were >really< pissed off at Israel you'd be in trouble. As it stands, a memo from state is alot better than the removal of financial and military support.
Some of the tactics used lately >deserved< that memo from state. Noone said anything about the battle being easy.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #184,414
11/18/04 11:46:08 AM
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And the tactics in Falluja don't????
I am looking for an end to the hypocrisy where the US goes around criticizing everyone and then does whatever it wants. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
IMHO Israel would be much better off getting no money from the US. The economy is strong enough to do without the money and it would make Israel less dependent.
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Post #184,415
11/18/04 11:53:38 AM
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Israel has very few friends
And incidents, such as with [link|http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6517553/|the Egyptians] today, means that you better use the few friends you have to maximum effect.
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Post #184,417
11/18/04 12:07:36 PM
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And therefore what
The US has certainly been a friend to Israel, there is no argument here. My point was that teh US is acting in a very hypocritical manner.
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Post #184,419
11/18/04 12:21:28 PM
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And they would argue...
...that they are doing this to assist in the timely transition of interim government...and are doing so at the request of the acting government.
And before everyone gets all huffy...I do realize that is a bullshit response insofar as we placed the interim government in power in the first place.
Dude, we're hypocritical in the mid-east every time we change an administration. Why are you in here of all places pining for this group to realize something that we all already know?
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #184,424
11/18/04 1:16:39 PM
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The U.S. has always been hypocritical
They apply one standard to Israel and another to the rest of the mideast. Of course, if we really wanted to make friends in the MidEast, all we'd have to do is pull the rug out and pass an economic blockade against Israel in the security council.
You seem to be under the mistaken belief that the U.S. has taken a hard line against Israel. What I always hear from the State Dept is (a) Israel should be cautious and sensitive; and (b) Israel has a right to defend itself. That line basically means the U.S. does nothing to try and stop the Israelis - including in Jenin.
As for the current context, I for one dislike the response from those that are trying to justify the soldiers actions. If the soldiers do not have discipline, then they are not a military force. It doesn't really matter whether we can justify it to ourselves, the effect on Arab opinion is already set in concrete. What matters from our perspective is simply whether the soldier defied orders in how to handle situations in armed conflict. Court martial his ass if he did. If the problem is more systematic, then Court Martial those involved in issuing the orders.
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Post #184,416
11/18/04 12:05:37 PM
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The US is very arrogant
I say this as someone who was born in the US and grew up there and will always think of myself as an American.
The US acts like the pigs in Animal Farm, everyone is equal but some are more equal then others. For example, nuclear weapons are bad and we can't let country x get them, but we will maintain our arsenal of thousands of nuclear weapons and in fact develop new ones.
Suddenly when the US is fighting a war against Islamic militants everything is allowed. Contrast Jenin and Falluja. In Jenin, Israel did not use heavy weapons out of consideration for civilians, yet what was the reaction of the US and the world? What is the US doing in Falluja?
After Abu Ghraib all I heard was how Abu Ghraib doesn't represent America. Now I am sure we will hear that the Marines who killed unarmed wounded Iraqis also don't represent America. So who does represent America?
People in the US think that the US is the model of democracy. In fact, the US has become a model for how not to run a democracy. Elections for the US have become a joke. Over 90% of elections for the House were not really contested because of gerrymandering. The Senate is not much better. We all know the problems with the electoral college.
The US is headed for a big fall, the budget and trade deficits are unsustainable, and the war in Iraq is draining away a lot of money. When it happens don't expect anyone around the world to be sympathetic.
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Post #184,418
11/18/04 12:13:26 PM
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ROFL -
I'm not sympathetic.
And - the world should FEAR the fall of the Republic. What comes next is EMPIRE.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #184,420
11/18/04 12:24:05 PM
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I won't expect symapthy.
But I do expect pining for the days when we paid for everything. Where do you think that capital is gonna come from next...France?
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #184,640
11/20/04 10:07:49 PM
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er..nitpick...
The US is very arrogant The current administration is very arrogant. I'll note with some humor that complaints with the current adminisration are a couple of weeks late. The US is headed for a big fall, the budget and trade deficits are unsustainable, and the war in Iraq is draining away a lot of money. When it happens don't expect anyone around the world to be sympathetic I expect just under half the country to be unsympathetic as well.
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Post #184,646
11/20/04 10:23:51 PM
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I think the US is arrogant
The vast majority of us, red or blue or other.
That arrogance has been drilled into our society, taught to most of us from childhood.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #184,647
11/20/04 10:25:38 PM
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s /US/human race/
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Post #184,445
11/18/04 6:11:39 PM
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eh? personally I think Israel should have long ago
emptied out the hospices and cancer wards, strapped em full of dynamite and sent them into the markets of the west bank and gaza. I think I mentioned that about the time the second homicide bomb went off. During and around 9/11 I was praying that my family would not be hurt because it would personally obligate me to return the favor on a mass scale, dont think it was excuses I was offering, just solid reasoning.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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