Post #155,175
5/14/04 3:14:03 PM
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I just saw it.
It was horrible. Only religion could inspire some one to be that evil. What struck me was that even in their religion inspired insanity, there must have been some infinitely tiny shred of sanity left in them: they were masked. So, maybe religion's power over people is not absolute. I mean, somewhere deep in the recesses of their minds they knew what they were doing was barbaric beyond description. For, if that were not the case and they were actually convinced God was on their side, why hide behind masks while chanting "God is Great" as you murder some one.
Still, I don't believe anyone poisoned by any organized religion can ever be "de-programmed" enough to be allowed to walk around by themselves. I am so depressed about this; I genuinely don't see how things will get better until we burn down all the mosques, temples and churches and execute their associated mullahs, rabbis, priests and preachers. I never thought I'd advocate burning books, but burning all the Korans, Old Testaments and New Testaments might be the best thing we can do...
bcnu,
Mikem
If you can read this, you are not the President.
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Post #155,178
5/14/04 3:39:27 PM
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Bull.
It ISN'T the religion that does it - people are just USING religion as an excuse to further thier own ends, stroke thier own egos, and control others.
Like they use guns.
Like they use law.
Like they use money.
Like they use education.
And even if you destroy all the tools that corrupt men use, you will have missed the real target; corruption will continue as long as people want to stand higher than thier neighbors - even if it means they have to stand on a pile of bodies to do it.
Abuse of religion is a symptom, not the disease.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #155,180
5/14/04 3:52:45 PM
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Exactly my point, Imric
The evil is in their hearts, inspired by whatever drives them at the time.
Nightowl >8#
"AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
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Post #155,179
5/14/04 3:51:34 PM
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That wasn't inspired by religion
That act was inspired by hate, pure and simple.
And I can't believe you really honestly believe that destroying all the churches would solve a thing, religion isn't in the buildings, it is in the hearts of those who are religious. A building isn't necessary for religion, OR fanaticism (as in the case of those who beheaded the guy), to exist.
Blame the real problem, and that's our government, because they got us into this mess.
Nightowl >8#
"AHHHHH! Relatives coming out of the woodwork!!!!!!"
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Post #155,181
5/14/04 4:04:23 PM
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Knock it off already
You admitted that religion is not the _only_ thing that can inspire people to do that.
--
Buy high, sell sober.
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Post #155,293
5/15/04 8:47:00 AM
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Yeah, buy I maintain it is the most potent.
bcnu,
Mikem
If you can read this, you are not the President.
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Post #155,188
5/14/04 5:03:54 PM
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I have a co-worker that knew the guy who died
I've seen it as well. But worse has been done without religion being involved. See Cambodia and the USSR in the 20'th century.
Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
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Post #155,212
5/14/04 6:39:08 PM
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Dont need religion to take off a head
there is plenty of people in Pelican Bay that would get in line to chop heads, lots more on the street some riding harleys others riding limos. The only reason there is more of it overthere is societal cohesion was broken over the sadaam years then disolved by us. These people dont need a reason as much as an excuse.
thanx,
bill
Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #155,295
5/15/04 9:05:53 AM
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My last on this (and only for clarity).
I seem to have conveyed the impression that I think the only cause of evil in the world is religion. That's not what I meant.
The point of view that I was trying to express was that the evil perpetrated in "God's name" is the most heinous. And I maintain that there is no insanity like that inspired by religious fervor. The lunatics (and they are legion) who believe in a God or Gods in their own image are the most dangerous people around and the acts of barbarism they are capable of make all others pale in comparison.
For people engaged in horrific acts out of a sense that "God is on my side" there simply is no solution, no way to re-introduce them to civilization. The special brand of insanity brought about by religious conviction simply cannot be cured.
So, I still hold that "it's not religion, it's the corruption of religion" is a fallacy. The root cause of Islamic Terrorism or Christian Crusades or whatever is religion. If it were not religion, perhaps it would be something else that would inspire this evil, but because it is religion, there is no cure.
bcnu,
Mikem
If you can read this, you are not the President.
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Post #155,304
5/15/04 10:17:37 AM
5/15/04 10:55:55 AM
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I think it is Ironic that...
Jesus is the "standard" of Christianity, and he said:
"Pray for those who persecute you"
"If someone takes your cloak, give him your robe also"
"Forgive not seven times, but seventy times seven"
"The standard by which you judge, you will be judged"
"I have come this you might have life and have it abundantly"
"Love your enemies and do good to those who hate you"
"Give to everyone who asks of you"
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
How does the leadership of this country (now) and this religion (in the Crusades) decide to kill thousands/millions of Muslims after reading the above?
I think what we are doing is dishonest and politically motivated, to give oil companies even more power, to raise the price of oil and profits of Bush's consituency. And Bush carries most of conservative Christianity along with it.
Preachers in America have been muzzled because, if they speak out on political issues, the church loses it's tax exempt status. That's why we don't have a modern Martin Luther King, Jr.
I see just as much dishonesty in Kerry's constituency.
And with so much cheating, duplicity, and selfishness in our society, God is about to "judge" our country with hard times. I fear it because I really do care about people, and all I can do is prepare and tell you to. But, if you will live out Jesus' words above, society will turn around, we will help each other, even people like Ross, Ray Careaga, and Asthon that I don't care so much for. Jesus didn't tell us to help people we like, he told us to help people who treat us badly, too. And most Christians don't have a clue about that.
I apologize, because Jesus doesn't want me to hate Muslims, but because of what they have done at 9/11 and because they continue to desire the deaths of all Christians and Jews, I often feel (even reading these words from Jesus) that the only option is to "kill them all". But that truly is wrong, and I am sorry. I let my rage out here, because it isn't "appropriate" to express that kind of rage in my home. My 8 year old son doesn't need to hear the anger expressed here, I don't want him to learn it. And yet it boils my blood to hear of "indoctrination camps" where Muslims are systematically trained to hate Christians and Americans with a great zeal. And I really get set off when innocent people are beheaded. It makes me want to take up arms.
A Christian friend told me that the ONLY way to convert a Muslim is to do exactly what Jesus said, "Do good to those who hate you", because it doesn't make sense in their religion. "Why should you "do good" to me when I want to destroy you" is the common response. But then it makes them question why they do the things they do.
I hope this helps you understand my postings somewhat. I want to aspire to the ideals of Jesus and live HIS way. But my anger drives me to hate Muslims because of what they do. I wish they could read and follow the words above, just once. Is there ANYTHING like Jesus' words in the Queran? Is there some way that people like Bin Laden can be discredited by the moderate clerics in the religion? Are there words that I could give to Muslims that would cause all of us to move towards peace? I fear that there are not. But maybe I should read the Queran and find out for myself.
Glen Austin
Edited by gdaustin
May 15, 2004, 10:55:55 AM EDT
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Post #155,309
5/15/04 12:20:24 PM
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Don't use such a broad brush with your anger.
I understand your rage. But it's not with Islam.
But recall that Jesus is revered as a prophet in Islam.
Bin Laden isn't a religious man. He uses the trappings of religion to convert others to his political aims.
Blind rage is destructive. Direct your anger appropriately.
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #155,313
5/15/04 12:49:09 PM
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It's really sad, because
both sides ( Bush, Bin Laden ) are using "religion" as a justification for thier actions, when I KNOW, at least on the Christian side, it's not consistent with what Jesus taught. I know that Bin Laden is doing the same.
Both sides are being manipulated. America by Bush, and Islam (Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) by Islamic extremists.
Can't we AND they just do the right thing?
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Post #155,314
5/15/04 1:19:57 PM
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Vote with your, er, vote, then, come November.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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