Post #151,723
4/19/04 4:41:38 AM
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Why not a Kurdish state?
Why is it that everyone in the world sees the need for a Palestinian state when there are already 22 Arab states, but no one sees the need for a Kurdish state even though there is none? There is no question that the Kurds have a distinct culture, language, etc. Why shouldn't Turkey, Syria and Iraq provide some land for a Kurdish state? What is the secret that gets the Palestinians so much support from the world while the Kurds get none? The only answer I can come up with is that the Palestinians are fighting with the Jews while the Kurds are not.
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Post #151,725
4/19/04 7:10:38 AM
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Be careful with the words "No-one".
I want to see a Kurdish state, and a Palestinian one.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #151,730
4/19/04 8:12:25 AM
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agreed
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,734
4/19/04 8:37:04 AM
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People who grind axes usually can't.
That seems to include most of the ME, unfortunately.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #151,748
4/19/04 10:31:47 AM
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Ok, but where is the UN ...
The EU, the British government, the US government etc. There is no comparison in the interest in the Palestinians by various organizations (UN, EU) and states vs. the Kurds. You haven't explained why.
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Post #151,750
4/19/04 10:40:17 AM
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Money
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Post #151,755
4/19/04 11:04:33 AM
4/19/04 11:04:54 AM
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What do you mean?
The Arabs have money and therefore what? I don't see what money has to do with it. It seems to that it has to do with the fact that the Kurds live in Turkey, Iraq and Syria. The Arabs have oil and 22 countries so everyone treats them nice and Turkey has been a major US ally.
Edited by bluke
April 19, 2004, 11:04:54 AM EDT
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Post #151,759
4/19/04 11:26:22 AM
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What does the US gain from a Kurdish state?
Nothing.
Would upset Turkey.
Would upset Syria.
Would upset Iraq.
Since a Kurdish state doesn't offer anything why should/would the US want to get involved?
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Post #151,763
4/19/04 11:31:17 AM
4/19/04 11:32:20 AM
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What does the US gain from a Palestinian state?
No one in the Arab world really wants one. Given the situation there any Palestinian state would probably be either an Islamic state or a failed state which is not in the US interests either. If anyone in the Arab world really cared about the Palestinians the refugees would not be sitting in refugee camps for 55+ years.
Edited by bluke
April 19, 2004, 11:32:20 AM EDT
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Post #151,766
4/19/04 12:13:18 PM
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We have a lot to gain for precisely the reasons you gave
The Arabs do not want an independant Palestinian state as the palestinians are the jews of the arab world. Hated, mistrusted and abused. Unfortunately the last 50 years of struggle has made giving them their own state the only method of self determination available to them. Whether it is an Islamic state or a failed state makes no difference, it will be their state. As for that effect on Israel, nothing will change the fact that the world wishes that the Jews would just go away and disappear from the face of the earth so it annoys them to see Jews in the news every day.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,756
4/19/04 11:06:12 AM
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No comparison, I agree
The two situations are very very different from just about every point of view AFAIK, historically, politically, culturally.
What similarities do you see besides the desire to create a new independent political entity?
Giovanni
I'm not a complete idiot -- some parts are missing
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Post #151,760
4/19/04 11:26:39 AM
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If anything the Kurds have a much stronger case
There already are 22 Arab states, Jordan is majority Palestinian, the Kurds on the other hand have nothing.
My point was that teh Kurds are ignored and teh Palsetinians are the darlings of the world.
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Post #151,762
4/19/04 11:29:40 AM
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Don't get me wrong.
I agree with you. But the political reality is MONEY (read OIL) or Power. A Kurdish state/country would offer nothing.
Unless we really did attack Iraq 'cuz Sadaam was a bad guy.
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Post #151,764
4/19/04 12:05:41 PM
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Kurd state would own most of Iraqs oil
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,758
4/19/04 11:25:07 AM
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Personally, I think we should've
just armed the shit out of the Kurds, instead of invading Iraq.
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Post #151,761
4/19/04 11:27:21 AM
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Turkey wouldnt like it
Being the only ME Islamic state that isnt trying to kill every american in sight we tend to cutem slack on the Kurdish issue.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,778
4/19/04 12:53:22 PM
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Re: Why not a Kurdish state?
I see no moral reason why not. There are however serious practical problems to carving out a Kurdish state, which would have to take land from Iraq and Turkey at a mininum and could include bits of Iran, Armenia and Syria also.
You might think the US is in the posistion to do so right now. But politically, breaking up Iraq is rather unpalitable. It would make the US look far too much like an imperial power to invade a country and divide it up. More over, there is a significant Iraqi nationalist drive to the resistance to the US. Trying to split the country would just inflame them further.
Jay
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Post #151,780
4/19/04 1:06:26 PM
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And the reason why the US would look like an imperial ...
power is because there is no consensus to create a Kurdish state. On the other hand when the US announces that it wants to create a Palestinian state no one says that the US is being imperial. Again my question is why have the Palestinians managed to cpature world opinion while the Kurds have not?
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Post #151,784
4/19/04 1:13:13 PM
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Better advertising
The basic reason is better advertising. The Palestinians have managed to make their plight heard around the world.
There are other differences between the two situations that influence how people look at it. One important one being that a lot of countries outside the Middle East view themselves as having an interest in the situation because they had a hand in the creation of Isreal.
Jay
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Post #151,785
4/19/04 1:18:55 PM
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I would suggest a different reason
The world is obsessed with the Jews. There is no other explanation why the events in Israel receive so much attention. 1 Palestinian killed gets a front page story in the NY Times while thousands of Africans, etc. getting killed is a back page story. Look at the difference between the coverage of the genocide in Rwanda, the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, etc. and the recent events in Jenin. The whole world was in uproar about a claimed "massacre" of 500 Palestinians which turned out to be a complete fabrication while the world basically turned a blind eye in Rwanda. How do you explain that?
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Post #151,788
4/19/04 1:24:39 PM
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How many Americans
IN POWER have connections to Rwanda?
How many to Israel?
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Post #151,789
4/19/04 1:27:02 PM
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the AFRICAN america congress group doenst care either
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,793
4/19/04 1:34:27 PM
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If that was the case ...
you would think that they would ignore the Palestinians and leave Israel alone. Besides where all those African American leaders, blacks are a much larger percentage of the American population then Jews.
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Post #151,796
4/19/04 1:42:31 PM
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With that question, you show that you don't live here.
A black in power is still an anomaly. There is still a large racial prejudice against blacks. IIRC Colin Powell is the highest, ever, black politician.
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Post #151,800
4/19/04 1:47:54 PM
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And just imagine it was a Republican who put him there
And the National Security Advisor is a black woman as well. What happened to those evil racist Republicans?
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Post #151,801
4/19/04 1:50:37 PM
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Tokens.
Both of them.
Look at Congress. Look at the Senate. Count the black faces. On the fingers of one hand.
Don't worry, we're not much better over here; mind you, at least we've had a woman leader.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #151,803
4/19/04 1:52:30 PM
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many times since the roman days
not going to happen any time soon over here.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,804
4/19/04 1:52:40 PM
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So did we...
Ya think Billy ran the show? ;-j
[image|/forums/images/warning.png|0|This is sarcasm...]
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Post #151,806
4/19/04 1:53:46 PM
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You're being loose with the definition of "woman" again.
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Post #151,808
4/19/04 1:56:17 PM
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queen E 1st&2nd Mary Queen of Scots etc etc
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,813
4/19/04 2:10:12 PM
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Ah, I was focusing (too much) on the elected.
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Post #151,820
4/19/04 3:05:50 PM
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ObLRPD: Supreme executive power derives from a mandate ...
...from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!
-YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #151,839
4/19/04 5:28:19 PM
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Yes, and you would want to have a "final solution"
for the Palestinians and have no one pay attention to it. You and the Palestinians are *exactly* the same. Please God, set off those weapons in the Negev and blow the wind towards Jerusalem!
Alex
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
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Post #151,869
4/19/04 10:27:18 PM
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Now that last 2 I can agree with
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,894
4/20/04 2:21:16 AM
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Not at all
They should move to the existing Palesdinian state Jordan and live long and prosper there.
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Post #151,904
4/20/04 8:09:10 AM
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Jordan is not a Palestinian state, the Jordanians
in fact killed a pile of them and shuffled the whole lot off to lebanon where they quickly destroyed that country until syria had to move in and kick them into North Africa. The Only place they have for a state is right where they sit.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #151,786
4/19/04 1:20:40 PM
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Better advertising by hijacking planes????
Suicide bombings??? Killing olympic athletes?? Throwing a wheel chair bound man overboard into the sea?
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Post #155,679
5/18/04 8:35:06 AM
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Yes, of course; saw all that on TV all the time, didn't ya?
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