Post #975
7/6/01 10:11:00 AM
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How much better is IWeThey plus "z."? Let me count the ways
This morning, I opened two browsers. EZcrap and this one. Switch back and forth between them at each mouse click. Never had a single delay waiting for a page here to load. Only a couple of short ones over there. Didn't see any ads either place (Though JunkBuster gets the credit at EZ) ... oh, except for that annoying popup and all the "Come look at our new toys" garbage that EZ puts in themselves.
Finished both sites within a click or two of the same time, so post count seems to be about a dead heat, and that's with the surveillence thread over on EZ still going strong. Even had to skim some of the stuff at EZ as it was out of my area of interest. (Not in the market for a new MOBO any time soon, etc.) Once that discussion moves over here, too -- what are you guys waiting for? -- that place will become a ghost town. (Hint: Don't start new threads over there if there's a matching forum here!)
My official modern astrological sign is Telsat, with Defcomsat rising.
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Post #985
7/6/01 11:44:53 AM
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Well
Now I think my point about "solving the forum problem" is officially validated! This is what happens when you solve the right problem instead of the wrong one - now thanks to Scott we have a beautiful working basis for a *competitor* to EZLYBored.
My only bitch is that network performance from here is somewhat pokey.
I wanted to ask Scott if the code is perusable at this point.
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Post #988
7/6/01 11:47:55 AM
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Pokey network connections
It does seem slow here as well. I thought it might have just been our ISP or our Intranet, but I guess it could be something else?
| "I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!" | Moe Howard |
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Post #990
7/6/01 11:56:11 AM
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Keep in mind
That this thing is being served over a cable modem with an upstream cap. 128kbps I believe. Get even 5 or 6 users downloading pages and it is going to be slow. Also, the hardware (specs on here somewhere..) is minimal. So..5-6 users sucking on an ittybitty pipe with a slow processor building all those pages, it's going to be slow.
Upgrades in the works I hear :)
-----
Steve
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Post #993
7/6/01 12:11:11 PM
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Yep.
1.5Mbps DSL soon, according to Jason.
Regards,
-scott anderson
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Post #1,014
7/6/01 2:39:04 PM
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Then we should stick to EzBoard for now
and leave this one for testing out the Zope changes until we can get better bandwidth here.
Still all in all, not bad for being free to the users. Thanks to all those who helped set this ZIWETHEY forum up.
| "I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!" | Moe Howard |
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Post #1,017
7/6/01 3:32:39 PM
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OK....You stick with ezBug...
I'm staying here. They've pushed a few too many of my buttons a few too many times.
-YendorMike
In order to understand recursion, one must understand recursion.
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Post #1,028
7/6/01 5:57:44 PM
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I'll stick with EzBug for now
they do seem to fix the bugs, only very very slowly. I just don't want to contribute to jamming up the ZIWETHEY server for most of my posts and reads until it gets better bandwidth.
| "I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!" | Moe Howard |
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Post #1,030
7/6/01 7:33:29 PM
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Fixing bugs...
I don't think EZBoard has ever gotten around to fixing longstanding issues: The generated HTML is no where near compliance - causing odd behavior even when the littlest of things is changed; the archiving issues were never addressed; the search engine is subpar; the order of the posts is time based instead of thread based; nntp will never happen; speed tends to come and go; annoying popups seem to be their business model; really long threads tend to abort in the middle (see some of the Bryce stuff on the OOP board); the user control of the L&F is minimal; the html filter makes it hard to post code - especially if the code being posted is html; etc...
Personally, I don't think EZBoard has gotten any better any time recently. Yes, they do fix some bugs, but most of those bugs are the ones introduced by the new versions. What EZBoard does have is a pretty solid backend that can send and retrieve lots of pages. What I wish they would do is make the front end as solid as the back end.
From a zIWETHEY perspective, I find it to be as fast or faster than EZBoard if I only view new messages. It does get quite slow if I try to pull up all of the messages. I suppose there might be a couple of reasons for that:
- bandwidth - as Scott mentioned
- bufferring - not sure but it appears that the entire page is buffered on the server instead of being flushed as it's being generated. If you look at some of EZBoard pages, they take a long time to download the entire page, but you get to see the top of the page before the bottom is completed.
- tables - unfortunately the browsers will not start drawing a table until the entire data for the table is received.
There's also probably a lot of issues related to Zope & PostgreSQL that Scott is probably cognizant of. At any rate, I think the software is useable at this point in time - pretty good for a prototype. I also feel that things will get better and better here, whereas on EZBoard I don't see any progress (actually seems to be regress).
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Post #1,036
7/6/01 8:36:45 PM
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Re: Fixing bugs...
Most of the speed issues are purely Zope DTML. It's just damned slow.
The Athlon 650 will help things alot, as well as some custom Python code I intend to write.
The pages are buffered, IIRC.
Regards,
-scott anderson
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Post #1,147
7/9/01 9:36:22 AM
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Not me...I'm here for good.
All the important people I want to argue...er, communicate...with [;-)] are here, the performance is better (even with the current bandwidth limitation), and , most importantly, there's competence here. Heck, they even debug your HTML for you here!!!
Why go anyplace else?\ufffd
jb4
(Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #1,232
7/9/01 9:34:19 PM
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And.. 'they've even noticed re the HTML
.. that *(&%)$# [shift] yada yada for all those tags.. is indeed a PITA (think Wade mentioned noticing).
And I see I'm not the Only one too lazy to [href a] and retype or cut/paste a second copy of the fscking LINK itself, so's it saves that onerous task of.. cut/p it yerself.
So maybe EZ-code variants shall appear in good time. All-in-all minor stuff compared to the nice layout and generally speedy, intuitive Everything. Now all we have to do - is rite stuff worth readin ..
er did I mention lately: Good Show! everyone from Scott, Wade, Jason (and buddies supplying the pipe AND the currently somehat less-than 2 GHz Alpha with RAD, or was that RADIO? Oh: RAID.)
(It'll be fun to send in all the spare old 20 GB HDs lyin around in closets n'stuff, no?)
A.
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Post #992
7/6/01 12:10:09 PM
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Solving the forum problem...
Would have been just as easy using an NNTP server for the backend. My estimate is that adding NNTP synchronization will take about 4 hours, and I intend on doing so after I get a few other things out of the way. I definitely went with the more complex solution. I don't think this validates your point at all.
The code will be perusable after v. 0.3, as I'm doing a lot of rearchitecting (extreme programming and all that... do the simplest thing that works :-).
Once I get everything prototyped (yes, this is a prototype) I'll port it to something else, like Webware. Zope is good for prototyping, but not for a full-scale project. There are too many things to work around, just like Visual Basic.
Regards,
-scott anderson
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Post #1,234
7/9/01 9:52:03 PM
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deS - yer beginning to worry me
I mean.. if *even I* can get the technical er 'issues' re NNTP as a damn-well debugged *existing* repository for these kinds of dialogues; if *even I* can see that, creating a GUI for making that basic database ~invisible to the web-browser user.. (and, while it may not be a trivial exercise, is no harder than *THIS* one seems to have been?)
HTF is it that - you Still didn't get that? even though what Scott says here, is ~ the 3rd or 6th time it has been pointed out?
Y'know if you were a bit of a retard and not a putative Pro, well.. it could be laid to short attention span - but this er 'issue' begins to look like willful disregard. On your part.
Could you have failed the CMOS check on startup, the AM you wrote this?
Interested People Want to Know Ltd.
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Post #1,161
7/9/01 11:19:27 AM
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Browsing the bugbase.....
and its got enough posts to be a real "base"... and some really pissy moderators these days...
I saw this:
[link|http://login.ezboard.com/fbugsfrm66.showMessage?topicID=1999.topic|http://login.ezboar...D=1999.topic]
Now, question.... why don't you simply sign a contract with advertisers such that you say "no popups unless we say so, and if you 'slip' one in on us, you pay us X?"
Chris, if you're around, any reason Keenspot can't be rigid like that, get paid lots extra for the "inconviences" of these "tricks?"
Addison
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