Joy.

Post #83,035 by inthane-chan 2/20/03 8:23:32 PM Reply	Joy. There goes the last chance that small ISPs will have anything better than a snowball's chance in Hell of surviving. Also, there goes the chance of getting anything OTHER than crappy service, unacceptable TOS, etc... "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
Post #83,038 by a6l6e6x 2/20/03 8:30:15 PM Reply	Well there is cable vs. DSL. Over time, the wireless companies should be getting in the act. But you are right about small ISPs using POTS. Alex "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."\t-- Mark Twain
Post #83,040 by inthane-chan 2/20/03 8:36:52 PM Reply	Or small ISPs using DSL. Over here, if this goes through, it's QWorst versus AT&T-soon-to-be-Comcast. QWorst resells MSN via it's DSL service. Order DSL from QWorst, and you get MSN, whether or not you want it. Oh, did I mention that Microsoft has internal forums dedicated to bitching just how bad MSN is (I kid you not) and not only that, but the worst of the bitching comes from the DSL department? On the other hand, you have AT&T Broadband, which has NO desire to actually provide any kind of "advanced user" broadband. If they detect a server of ANY sort on your cable modem, automatic shutdown. This includes game servers. If I want to host a Neverwinter Nights module, they can kick my ass off the network. They've done this to a few Half-Life servers already. Excuse me for not being excited. "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
Post #83,053 by imric 2/20/03 9:46:03 PM Reply	We have three years. I fired a nastygram off to the fcc directors already. Maybe we stand a chance after we kick the head elected bastards out next election - then maybe competition and the economy might stand a chance. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #84,008 by jb4 2/25/03 1:22:27 PM 2/25/03 1:23:41 PM Reply	Typo alert! Maybe we stand a chance after we kick the head elected bastards out next election - then maybe competition and the economy might stand a chance. Uhhh, that would be "head selected bastards", imric. Other than that, agree completely! jb4 "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." Rich Cook Edited by jb4 Feb. 25, 2003, 01:23:08 PM EST Edited by jb4 Feb. 25, 2003, 01:23:41 PM EST Expand All History
Post #84,024 by imric 2/25/03 1:44:02 PM Reply	Well.... That depends. I was talking about the bastards that do the selecting... Those are (supposed to be) elected, no? Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #84,028 by jb4 2/25/03 1:52:44 PM Reply	So was I Yes they are supposed to be elected. And maybe before I die they will be again.... But Powell is selected regardless of whether the selectors are themselves selectedor elected. Clear? ;-) jb4 "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." Rich Cook
Post #84,029 by imric 2/25/03 1:54:20 PM Reply	chuckle K. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #84,493 by jake123 2/26/03 10:01:15 PM Reply	Sucks to be you guys For all those that bitch about regulation of industry... BellNexxia (dsl wire provider in Ontario and Quebec, wholly owned by BCE) got spanked again recently for being bad to people other than Sympatico HSE (DSL ISP wholly owned by, you guessed it, BCE). I also understand another smackdown is in the works, thanks in small part to lobbying efforts carried out on my and my ISP's behalf during my recent problems which took my systems offline for forty days. I understand from my contacts at velocet that bellnexxia has gotten really nice all of a sudden... --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #84,648 by jb4 2/27/03 2:07:23 PM Reply	Methinks you misunderstand, Jake I don't believe we (the collective mind of the LRPD...and me specifically) are bitching about regulation, we (specifically, me) are bitching about the license to steal and monopolize a supposedly regulated industry that is passing for regulation. jb4 "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." Rich Cook
Post #84,663 by jake123 2/27/03 3:09:59 PM Reply	No, I understood perfectly Up here, we seem to be actually getting regulation, of the DSL market at least. Cable's another issue entirely... but with the steady downward trend of the QoS at most of the local cable monopolies offset only by the climbing prices for the aforementioned service, I don't think it's going to last. The reason it "sucks to be you" is because you guys are in a place where the regulatory atmosphere is such that you get to deal with companies with a "license to steal and monopolize a supposedly regulated industry". Like I said... BellNexxia's on the road to getting quarterly spankings by the CRTC... and spankings by the CRTC (if they start to get pissed off at repeated bad behaviour) can hurt to the tune of millions, and on a couple of notable occasions within my memory, of literally a billion: Bell Canada, the wholly owned subsidiary of BCE that has the local phone and had the long distance monopoly in Ontario and Quebec once had to issue a refund to the tune of 114$ for the typical residential customer; I shudder to think what they had to give to the business customers, who tend to pay three to four times as much as residential customers do for services. \r\n\r\n So... if you're in telecom, and you start getting the signal that the CRTC commissioners are starting to get impatient with repeated malingering followed by prevarication, it usually pays to take note. --\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \r\n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \r\n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #84,705 by jb4 2/27/03 7:11:35 PM Reply	Thank you, Thot I saw The Sign, but it turns out you were serious. Sheesh! What a change that is. And yer right...it does suck to be us.... jb4 "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." Rich Cook
Post #83,640 by tuberculosis 2/24/03 3:12:08 AM Reply	Its a good time to start a wireless ISP Which is one of 3 business plans I'm working on. I'm thinking I've got to make my own job when I get back to the states. I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more. --Alan Perlis
Post #84,506 by Fuat 2/26/03 10:28:57 PM Reply	Re: Its a good time to start a wireless ISP Sprint tried that in the San Jose area I think a few years ago using MMDS (Multichannel Multipoint Distribution Service). Wasn't terribly successful. Perhaps the time wasn't right then. I recently read somewhere that Intel, AT&T and someone else were putting together a joint effort to provide nationwide 802.11b/g service. Something with fairly wide coverage (don't know how they'll do this), unlike the T-Mobile access points in airports, Starbucks, etc.
Post #84,613 by deSitter 2/27/03 10:31:51 AM Reply	Great Idea I've been thinking about that as well, it's a phenomenal opportunity. I live in a place without DSL or digi-cable and there are many like me. You could tie in home networking and offer a complete solution. What you need to do is secure cheap space in relatively tall buildings to put up the transmitters. As of now there is little regulation of the broadcast end of things, so that won't impede the startup by adding administrative costs. The main tactical problem is making sure everyone likely to be a customer has line-of-sight to one of your transmitters. This is also a phenomenal growth opportunity for hooking up people in the hinterlands. In a way that would be an ideal business - travelling the vast expanses of the West, putting up networking. -drl
Post #84,614 by boxley 2/27/03 10:42:20 AM Reply	Here is a link on how not to do it. [link\|http://www.eprairie.com/news/viewnews.asp?newsletterID=2264\|http://www.eprairie....newsletterID=2264] The source also said: "When Winstar signed customers, it typically provisioned back-up, leased, high-capacity circuits from the incumbent local-exchange carrier (ILEC). This is likely the biggest reason they went under. "It's similar to the DSL providers. If you have your own considerable capital expenditures (the cost of deploying the wireless transceiver on the roof) and you have to lease back-up lines from the incumbent, where is the profit margin?" thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
Post #84,642 by deSitter 2/27/03 1:24:25 PM Reply	Fixed Wireless You own and build your own infrastructure. A figure I saw was - $25k for infrastructure to serve 3000 customers, $50 per month flat rate. The money would definitely flow. The opportunity here is that the cable companies are too busy upgrading existing nets to bother with small-timing like this. The opportunity won't last long, but the window is open NOW. You could get the business going with as little as $50k in cash - $100k would be better. I'm so certain this would work I'd quit my existing job to help develop it. -drl
Post #84,664 by imric 2/27/03 3:31:41 PM 2/27/03 3:32:52 PM Reply	If only I had 50-100K! Heck - there's a wireless ISP in Key West just for boats @ the marina... THERE'S a market waiting to be tapped (meaning marinas - KW is covered)... And you'd get a neat locale to work in, too! Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Edited by imric Feb. 27, 2003, 03:32:52 PM EST Expand All History
Post #84,619 by drewk 2/27/03 11:08:19 AM Reply	Alternative Find a home security company and cut a deal with them. Run a fat pipe into their headquarters. When someone wants an alarm system, have them pull a "dry pair". Yes, the security companies will pull copper to the home. Make appropriate connections at the home office. Presto, combination home security/ISP. Great thing is you don't even have to sell a combined service. You're basically piggy-backing on their installers. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #84,621 by jake123 2/27/03 11:19:25 AM Reply	ISTR that pulpit guy yakking about that some years back... --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #84,624 by drewk 2/27/03 11:41:18 AM Reply	Probably where I got the idea === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #84,643 by CRConrad 2/27/03 1:32:17 PM Reply	Only as I recall it, Cringley said... ...not that "security companies will pull copper to the home", but that in most locations they already have contracts (hopefully more or less iron-clad) with the "incumbent something something carrier" ("ILEC"), so the security company gets to lease those "dry pairs" at cost from the very local telco that would otherwise be impossible for anyone to compete with. (Not claiming to be one thousand percent certain that's what he said, but I do pride myself on a pretty good memory for shit I've read years ago.) [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #84,644 by drewk 2/27/03 1:41:06 PM Reply	Well ... Exactly what he [link\|http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010823.html\|said] was: Of course the local telephone companies hate this whole idea because they want to sell you that T-1 line for $500-600 per month. That's why they will tell you dry pairs don't exist when they usually do exist. And that's why phone companies are trying to get rid of dry pairs as quickly as they can. ... All this dry pair stuff means that anyone who already has dry pairs -- LOTS of dry pairs -- suddenly has an asset they never knew had value. Quick like a bunny, buy-up that stodgy old burglar alarm company that's been limping along in your town for 50 years. They have a dry pair (often more than one) going to every building. Switch the dry pairs to digital, make the alarm service digital, too, then use the old alarm panel and all that excess bandwidth to offer both wired and wireless Internet access to the whole town. With the lowest circuit cost and more circuits than a regular ISP could ever afford, you'll soon be a broadband tycoon. It looks like alarm companies got permission to pull the copper before anyone had thought of building their own network from scratch, and the CLEC are trying desperately to make them go away. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #84,685 by CRConrad 2/27/03 5:21:08 PM Reply	Aah, kewl!

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