Hate to do it...

Post #82,919 by bepatient 2/20/03 11:51:13 AM Reply	Hate to do it... ...you know...post opposing points of view to the "collective" lest I be accused of crushing dissent or minimizing a cause. [link\|http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6248\|http://www.frontpage...ticle.asp?ID=6248] The new Universal Theory, to which 99% of Saturday's speakers and placards enthusiastically subscribed, is that, whatever the problem, American imperialist cowboy aggression is to blame. In fact, it's not so different from the old Universal Theory, in that the international Zionist conspiracy is assumed to be behind the scenes controlling the cowboys: Bush is a "puppet of Jewry," just like Churchill was -- notwithstanding the fact that America's Jews voted overwhelmingly for Gore. But, if you believe that the first non-imperialist great power in modern history is the source of all the world's woes, then logic is irrelevant. "It's all about oil"? Yes, for the French, whose stake in Iraqi oil is far more of a determining factor than America's ever has been or will be. "America created Saddam"? No, not really, the French and Germans and Russians have sold him far more stuff, and Paris built him that reactor which would have made him a nuclear power by now, if the Israelis hadn't destroyed it in the Eighties. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #82,945 by a6l6e6x 2/20/03 1:39:56 PM Reply	Given that Churchill is compared to Bush, you should have posted this in Oh, Pun. It's a joke comparing a giant to a gnat! With a flaw like that, it's hard to take anything else that is said seriously. Sure Hitler and Saddam have a lot in common. But, Bush is surrounded by the same kind of sycophants that Hitler was. They are on a Crusade and are insulated from the real world. And identifying a "flake" among the protestors and painting all the rest with the same brush is a bit much too. Alex "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."\t-- Mark Twain
Post #82,947 by marlowe 2/20/03 1:44:25 PM Reply	Churchill was no gnat. He was half American and all cowboy. No oil for TotalFinaElf! CHICKENHAWK! Scourge of clucking hens everywhere! Victory is the answer. There are no alternatives. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Post #82,949 by Brandioch 2/20/03 1:50:31 PM Reply	That's cute. He's pretending that he's stupid and mis-understood who was being referenced as the giant and who was the gnat. At least, I think he's pretending to be that stupid.
Post #82,950 by marlowe 2/20/03 1:51:34 PM Reply	Irony is wasted on the stupid. What are you pretending to be? No oil for TotalFinaElf! CHICKENHAWK! Scourge of clucking hens everywhere! Victory is the answer. There are no alternatives. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Post #82,952 by Brandioch 2/20/03 2:05:48 PM Reply	I will now explain "irony" to you. Irony: The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning. So, Churchill was identified as a "giant" and Bush as a "gnat". You said that Churchill was not a "gnat". Which you now claim was "irony". Therefore, you were saying that Churchill was a "gnat"?
Post #82,951 by bepatient 2/20/03 1:54:08 PM Reply	I can see you didn't read very closely. Because there wasn't a comparison made between Churchill and Bush. Only a comparison to what the enemy has deemed them...zionist pawns. Another quick rejection of ideas that differ. Trendspotting. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #82,959 by a6l6e6x 2/20/03 2:28:29 PM Reply	Re: quick rejection of ideas? More like a rejection of a premise. Alex "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."\t-- Mark Twain
Post #82,962 by bepatient 2/20/03 2:32:35 PM Reply	A false premise based upon the quick dismissal You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #83,007 by a6l6e6x 2/20/03 5:09:39 PM Reply	Re: zionist pawns and such. One does not have to hang such crap on those who are not part of the Bush league. Here are some thoughts closer to what my view is: [link\|http://www.cato.org/dailys/06-04-02.html\|Crackpot Theology Makes Bad Foreign Policy]. Alex "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."\t-- Mark Twain
Post #83,009 by boxley 2/20/03 5:12:36 PM Reply	If G_d didnt want the Jews to have the land back he wouldnt have invented hitler. :-) thanx, bill who also works in mysterious ways will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
Post #83,191 by mmoffitt 2/21/03 1:53:14 PM Reply	Nice read, although one "obvious" thing eludes the author. He writes: And if the land was to belong to Jews forever, why did they lose control of it? Surely God does not require America's assistance to give it back. Only the least observant of us would fail to grasp that We, the People of the United States of America, in order to form a more perfect Union have become "Christian Soldiers". Of course God would require the assistance of his one, true Army. bcnu, Mikem Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Post #83,276 by Ashton 2/21/03 8:15:30 PM Reply	Recursive traps are so.. so jejeune? When one is in the throes of crackpot theology -- all else heard, are words of that Ol Debbil. Especially the measured intelligent logical progressions: just go to show How devious be Ol Debbil. (Kinda like Ol gawd a hidin them fossils n'stuff.. so's to disguise the Truth of Creationism from the yokels. That Ol Gawd fella - Him love pull wings off flies shipwrecked on islands; why He be the noblest invention of Man, some say) 288. ARGUMENT FROM BRAINWASHING 1) Atheists claim that Christians have been brainwashed by churches, priests and religious environment. 2) Yeah, well, you have been brainwashed by secular colleges and universities! Your brainwashing keeps you from the Truth! 3) Therefore, God exists. 290. ARGUMENT FROM WHATEVER I DO 1) Sometimes I do good things, and sometimes I do bad things. 2) When I do good things, this proves that God is helping me to be good. 3) When I do bad things, this proves that the devil has tempted me to do evil, and I need God's help to overcome temptation. 4) So whatever I do, it proves that God exists. 5) Therefore, God exists Ashton, Nonexistant
Post #82,955 by boxley 2/20/03 2:13:19 PM Reply	I like the strange bedfellows part But why be surprised? In fall 2001, being pro-gay and pro-feminist didn't stop the left defending an Afghan regime that disenfranchised women and executed homosexuals. Yet these are the same fellows who insist that a secular regime like Iraq's would never make common cause with Islamic fundamentalists, apparently requiring a higher degree of intellectual coherence of Saddam than of themselves. neatly skewered for roasting :-) thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
Post #83,086 by dmarker 2/20/03 11:12:11 PM Reply	Left schmeft - bloody labels that merely serve to ... marginalize legitimate contrary opinion. Lets talk about people from all walks & backgrounds who have a legitimate protest. Calling them lefts & rights is really little more than dishonest twists & turns in identification. Doug Marker
Post #83,088 by boxley 2/20/03 11:17:44 PM Reply	lets talk about them Lets talk about people from all walks & backgrounds who have a legitimate protest. there are those. However the organizers are hijacking these people for their own purposes claiming that Joe Schmoo who is genuinely against the war supports ALL of the positions the organisers take. I beleive that Stalin called them "useful idiots." thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
Post #83,090 by bepatient 2/20/03 11:36:41 PM Reply	Yes...lets. How many of them were there? Noone knows. Are they there. Yes. Nobody doubts their concerns. You claim we "marginalize" them by showing who organized them. If that is the case, then you are also marginalizing the present and rather large element of the organizers...who are anything BUT "average joes" with "legitimate concerns". I don't have to label them left or right...they call themselves communists..and they call themselves enemies of the United States. Theres nothing dishonest about it. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #83,126 by Ashton 2/21/03 8:05:42 AM Reply	Wrong: NOT "enemies of the United States" Enemies of a cabal, come to power via a coup d'etat. Enemies of a cabal which has methodically dismantled the Constitution (temporarily - one may only hope), prated theological precepts as reason for exercising secular power and ... the rest as is familiar to all here, by now. Patently false semantic trickery there, BeeP. We've become that butt of bar-talk: a Banana Republic now (temporarily - one may only hope) Ashton
Post #83,142 by Brandioch 2/21/03 9:54:05 AM Reply	You need to check your facts. But why be surprised? In fall 2001, being pro-gay and pro-feminist didn't stop the left defending an Afghan regime that disenfranchised women and executed homosexuals. As I recall, it was the Right that hosted the Taliban in Texas. Why don't you try to find anything posted supporting the Taliban's abuse of women?
Post #83,165 by boxley 2/21/03 10:53:34 AM Reply	not my facts pal, a quote from the link you can check THEIR facts at your convenience. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
Post #83,180 by Brandioch 2/21/03 12:55:22 PM Reply	So you're saying you don't agree with that? The statement you quoted from them? Or are you saying that you do agree with it? Or do you lack any balls whatsoever and are just going to claim that you quoted something from someone and you have no opinion on it.... In which case, why did you bother to quote it? I'm putting $5 on you don't have the balls.
Post #83,203 by boxley 2/21/03 2:59:13 PM Reply	I got yer balls right here -0-> -0-> I enjoyed the comment I quoted, much like I enjoy the Peta folks whining at Arafat about dynamiting donkeys because they are as a group a bunch of hypocritcal assholes who think the only thing wrong with this world is America. Mahound's boys and them are two of a kind. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
Post #83,239 by Brandioch 2/21/03 5:29:00 PM Reply	Damn. And no one took my bet. :( I coulda made $5. No balls. You couldn't even say whether you agreed with it or not.
Post #83,275 by boxley 2/21/03 8:13:01 PM Reply	poor baby, will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
Post #83,248 by bepatient 2/21/03 6:27:04 PM Reply	Hmm. We'll get semantics back on this one. [link\|http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000076.html\|http://www.equityfem.../2002/000076.html] You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #83,277 by boxley 2/21/03 8:16:42 PM Reply	I like this quote Note that in addition to Steinem, Eve Ensler, Barbara Kingsolver, Stephanie Coontz, Starhawk, and Alice Walker also added their support to giving the Taliban a free hand in Afghanistan "free from military coercion by great powers." yep hypocritical assholes. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
Post #83,303 by Ashton 2/21/03 8:50:29 PM Reply	Only an Econ-minor could make this leap from the standard preceding anti-feminist doggerel: Apparently after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the Taliban were no longer religious totalitarianism, but rather a brave movement standing up to U.S. coercion. Steinem was apparently prepared to sign any number of declarations against the Taliban, but how dare those patriarchal forces in the White House actually get rid of the Taliban without clearing it with Steinem first? (And presumably, women in Iraq (Do I really have to look up the latin shorthand for this egregious example of wishful imputation of idiocy, for the convenience of a shitload of cant? Dunno, BeeP.. must be yer Rosicrucian-colored glasses again
Post #83,304 by bepatient 2/21/03 8:59:12 PM Reply	Dunno what the degree was... ...but I can read direct quotes. The s word starteth You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #83,416 by bepatient 2/22/03 3:57:02 PM Reply	Give me an "e"! You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #83,489 by Ashton 2/23/03 3:52:33 AM Reply	You 'read' OK; it's your logic that's rilly Econ-fluffy The [link\|http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/unrep.htm\|Unrepresentative sample] fallacy. (For just one - want more?) You wish to impute that, possible general motivations of organizers of an Event (in this case simply, ~ Anti this war) inhere to all participants of a merely, conveniently organized locus around which to collect like-minded others. A 'Communist' may oppose a War or a particular kind of marketing, whatever her feelings about government theory. A Calvinist might organize against the same perceived ill as a ___. Or even a Christian might have the same view as a Hottentot - re propaganda. You imagine that you may dismiss most-all the participants as being 'dupes' at best; fellow-[whatever epithet] at worst. Smarmy that; mainly - flawed. But typical of Murican politico-babble as practiced by the mob. Label it and you can ignore it: that's your ostrich position. Congrats: yer average. Ashton
Post #83,519 by bepatient 2/23/03 11:05:52 AM Reply	Nothing like that. Common causes have always made strange bedfellows. But ignorance of the >reasoning< underneath is just as egregious an error as the one you accuse me of...being dismissive. We are back to that dude getting pissed of at Rush. He took offense at Rush's statement that some protesters, pricipally the organizers were communists. He found >the TRUTH< offensive. I have never stated that there were not honest people with honest disagreements to this situation. Never once. In fact...I have stated the opposite. All my statements have surrounded the fact that the majority of these folks have NO IDEA of the machine underneath...and if they did...they may be forced to think about it again. Not that it would change their opinion...just that it would ensure that it was well thought out. Might even make some of them more active in arranging their >own< protests...that would be better received by the meed-ja...cause ANSWER does a disservice to the cause here. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #83,657 by Ashton 2/24/03 5:54:42 AM Reply	Odd you should mention "machines underneath" But that would be too long a digression. I'll still wait for the Hawk Demonstration. hmmm if the Communists are for fairness, perhaps they will help organize that too? But will it be believable.. Ashton
Post #83,675 by bepatient 2/24/03 7:30:35 AM Reply	No its not. Or do you think these all "spontaneous". Even you aren't that dense. Digress away You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #83,872 by Ashton 2/24/03 8:21:46 PM Reply	Now we get to.. Suddenly it's 1950 Look Beep - that phrase is from the same slogan-factory as invented "Commies / queers in our schools tryin to subvert naive students to their Evil Way of Life\ufffd" cha cha cha. It is also a subset of the mindset (at root) "Our 'democracy' is so fragile.. we dare not let innocents be exposed to rebuttals, suggestions or outright Other! Schemes\ufffd" ie We Are Such Children! In your present example, clearly inferred is: "that none/few/a lot fewer/ people would Want to protest against this scheduled war' lessen duped into it. Being easily led: these suggestible folks Went Along With Commyunists -- ergo their protest is now dev/null [How Very Convenient]. How very didgithink. How very bogus, especially on its reiteration over the decades. Those of us who heard this crap the first time around - are rather sensitive to its latest cant-form. It's so so Econ-like in its simplistic implications, y'know? Ashton PS - are most people inept at organizing demonstrations? Yes they/we are. Does 'organizing' a demonstration mean any more than: Porta-potties, maybe buses are needed when (X>'a few') people congregate ?? Personally I don't give a fuck if a Cthulhuist or even a {Christian} organizes A March to Demonstrate My Opposition to [A Government Action] \ufffd. I need not sacrifice A) a virgin or B) my conscience to pop-God Machiavelli -- in the first or second option.
Post #83,942 by bepatient 2/25/03 12:27:05 AM Reply	I wonder how many... ...in being "organized" this way, have donated to causes that they would >never< support...all in the name of "peace". Noone was "duped" into protesting. They went of their own free will. The organizers were less than forthright in providing details of who they are and what they stand for. Witness, as has been stated several times, the reaction of some of these fine Americans when confronted with the reality of the situation. My position is simple..and completely opposite of what you pretend it to be. In your (mangled) language...the "innocents" deserve all of the facts. Facts that have been deliberately hidden from them in order to further an agenda that they >may< not want furthered. You further try to imply that I somehow nullify the honest opinions held by the protesters. Nice try. They have every right to their opinion and my respect of it. They also have every right to be informed of who they are with..and who is calling the shots..and should they donate cash...what that cash will be used for. Do you think that fine, upstanding American who was so offended by Rush's statements would sit well with knowing that money raised at these functions is used to attempt to free a convicted cop-killer, for example? Do you think, at least, that this man has a right to know this? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #84,021 by Silverlock 2/25/03 1:39:47 PM Reply	This is just delicious My position is simple..and completely opposite of what you pretend it to be. In your (mangled) language...the "innocents" deserve all of the facts. Facts that have been deliberately hidden from them in order to further an agenda that they >may< not want furthered. Just what is happenning with that whitewash^H^H^H^H^H^H^H investigative committee to determine how 9/11 could have happened? Who was on the energy advisory committe to determine this nation's energy policy? And on and on and on...... How many lives per gallon? --Sign outside of various churches
Post #84,047 by bepatient 2/25/03 2:57:31 PM Reply	And this has precisely what to do with anything? Are you inventing something? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #84,051 by Silverlock 2/25/03 3:08:01 PM Reply	Nope. Just pointing out something I find ironic. How many lives per gallon? --Sign outside of various churches
Post #84,057 by bepatient 2/25/03 3:23:41 PM Reply	Ironic in what sense? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #84,062 by Silverlock 2/25/03 4:06:22 PM Reply	Oh, come on. facts hidden from those who need them to make informed choices. You see it in anti-gov forces. I see it in our own gov as well. How many lives per gallon? --Sign outside of various churches
Post #84,098 by bepatient 2/25/03 5:44:52 PM Reply	No question. Just pressing to make sure. Why? Because (hold on to your chair)...I happen to agree that it exists inside and outside the beltway. So we agree. Don't let it happen again. Move along. Nothing to see here ;) You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #83,401 by Brandioch 2/22/03 1:15:20 PM Reply	I can explain that. If there is something you oppose in one group..... And then another group that you oppose comes in and takes over that group.... Then, when you state your opposition to the second group, you're actually contradicting your earlier statement of opposing the first group. I don't like child molesters..... I don't like organized crime..... But when I oppose a mob hit on a bar where a child molester was drinking..... That means I support child molestation. It's religious. Anything I do is GOOD when I am doing whatever I want to do to BAD people. That's the kind of "logic" that results in kids having a hand cut off because they were caught stealing. You will NEVER make any progress against that thought process with plain old logic.
Post #83,419 by boxley 2/22/03 5:47:25 PM Reply	you mean like this? I don't like brandioch's logic train I don't like organized crime..... But when I oppose a mob hit on a bar where Brandioch is dispensing logic That means I support child molestation? :-) thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] \ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar

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