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New Camaro cop car
[link|http://www.kentuckyconnect.com/heraldleader/news/082801/statedocs/28copcars.htm|[link|http://www.kentuckyconnect.com/heraldleader/news/082801/statedocs/28copcars.htm|http://www.kentucky...8copcars.htm]]

What's that lerpadism? Cop tires, cop engine . . .
"When it crosses my mind to do something, I don't ask why, I ask why not. And usually there's no reason not to, so I just go ahead. It's given me the strangest collection of hats"
New We've had those around here for a few years..
...plus a few other large sedans with lights in the grills opposed to on top.
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New Legal issue over here.
Seattle and King County bought a bunch of "non-standard" vehicles - SUVs, a Volvo station wagon, and some other stuff. Now some people are trying to get their traffic tickets invalidated because the cars don't look like cop cars. Apparently there's actually some verbiage in the King County charter that they can use for this, too...
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New They've had those here for a long time.
I got a ticket passing an unmarked red Camaro in my Mustang, too. :-)

Troy, MI has red and blue Camaros and a few different SUVs, in addition to a lot of unmarked Crown Vics.
Regards,

-scott anderson
New Yeah, the big Crown Vics...
...with the light's in the grill are very popular.


The Cameros at least have side markings (no light bar) so they're hard to see behind you. The Mustangs don't have any markings
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New Unmarked cars common here in .au too
Though FWIW there's the occasional sign around saying 'unmarked cars patrol this area'. Over the years the Police have used aone of those super turbo Volvo 850s (which they crashed, ruining Volvo's publicity stunt :) ) and a number of WRX's. Many many years ago they had a bunch of Mini Cooper S's, the though of which still amuses the hell out of me. Great cars, yes, but squeezing two big burly policemen into them?

On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New Re: Unmarked cars common here in .au too
Though FWIW there's the occasional sign around saying 'unmarked cars patrol this area'

We don't have warning signs, but what we do have are the aerial spotters. What they do is paint two lines on the road about a quarter mile apart. An airplane flying overhead will time you going between the lines and, if you're speeding, they radio ahead of you about a mile to where a whole group of cops are just waiting. No radar to detect and by the time you see the cops, it's too late, they've already got you nailed.

They do have warning signs, although I've never seen them in operation in New Mexico. I did get nailed by one in Illinois a few years back
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New They tried it here, was generally known as 'Pigs in Space':)
Except they eventually gave up as it was too expensive. Though I'm sure all the revenue from the umpteen speed cameras around the place could keep a lot of planes flying around :)
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New my last speeding ticket...
was several years ago. I was driving on highway 1 near [link|http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/explore/vancouver/cities/hope.htm|Hope BC]. There was a group of police cars under an overpass. I saw them in time and cruised through feeling pretty superior to those who had been pulled over. After a decorous distance I took the car back to supra-legal speeds and got nailed at the next overpass where the radar gun was set on top of the overpass. sigh.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
New Automated speed cameras...
Had an amusing incident with a speed camera some years ago. On the major freeway south of Sydney, some electronic signs had just been erected in an interchange where the speed limit was lower. They were testing them with some speed cameras. I had already slowed to about 70km/h because my turn off was just over the rise, but the guy next to me was still going rather faster. As it happened, he passed me just as we both got to the ideal spot to see the at that point blank new sign and suddenly up comes the message "Your speed: 90km/h" with an arrow to his lane and then it changed to "Speed limit: 70km/h". He slowed down in a very visible hurry!

I still think they should leave it like that when they didn't have any other message for it...

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Speeding is Stupid and Dangerous
My girlfriend's brother is paralyzed from the chest down as of Saturday. He was speeding. What the fuck is the thrill of speeding if you are beyond about 17? Get your ass to a racetrack if you feel the need for speed. Grow up.
New sorry about yer girlfriends brother glad you have her
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New speeding
Sorry, to hear about that. Ok he was speeding, how did that factor into it? what else was going on? You know, the limit on most highways around here (CA) is 65. That is more than plenty to mess you up. As I recall the limit used to be 55 and that didn't appreciably affect the outcome of an uncontrolled deceleration...

As for racing, I like to go [link|http://www.speedring-kartracing.com/launch/index2.html|here]. If you're in San Jose, look me up and we'll go driving. :-)
Have fun,
Carl Forde
New Life is..
er often.. filled with stupidity inside and external.

and it is 100.01% fatal.

'Speed' per se is the popular means for reducing to inane oversimplification / thus raising revenues - the usually intricate happenstances which distinguish a near-miss from, Worse-than death:

Being cognizant in full body-cast, unable to signal and -- having to listen to someone 'explaining' that, Risk is Bad, and if you do it:

God will Get You\ufffd And Roast You for Eons.
Because She Likes to Watch.



Sorry too, about the brother: karma?
As good an explanation as F=MA.
If we Must 'explain', that is.
New Not Against Risk
No guts, no glory. I love racing. I like to fly on the twisties on back of a good cycle. But speeding in a congested area is part suicide and part murder and should be heavily punished with fines. Certainly speeding is a far more significant factor in traffic deaths than is alcohol impairment.

I guess you have to know a paralyzed person to understand what a living death it is.

BTW, are you saying my karma sucks? Could be. A lot of terrible shit seems to go on around me.
New Clearer
Your karma?

How about *his*?

Of course! there are Stupid places to (also speed) but the er 'crime' is first the Stupidity! The speed merely intensifies the consequences of (a tissue of circumstances).

If you.. on your Norton Manx 30M, slide off on say, a 'decreasing-radius turn' (whose rato-of decrease you hadn't judged right, or something obscured a significant 'patch'?) - that may be variously...

Not quite-enough experience for That exact 'problem'? = when travelling at 99% of your abilities: 'education'; the way In Fact we learn on such machines. Sigma all those experiences = your own 'lore' to date.

If 110% - say, (you Should have Noticed) - Way over your abilities: bad judgment of the sort which raises probabilities of mishap into 'Stupid' range.

If above AND you run into a Repo or a jogger while sliding: bad (technical) judgment and irresponsibility!

Similarly - if this person was 'speeding' in circumstances you hint at: bad judgment, irresponsibility and in that case - add in criminal negligence too.

Any of the above + mechanical failure (but Not from utterly stupid inattention to basic inspection, maintenance = that is suicide by sloth) - maybe.. what we then call 'chance', is more properly assigned to the ineffable n'such?

{sheesh} - 'circumstances' are *all*. Picking out 'speed' is as inane as - in another more popular context - that of labelling sex / pleasure as 'Bad', because: Yes! you Can generate families of consequences, in both metaphors!

Rest case.

A.
New Nope, much more important factors
I'd much rather drive in Germany on the autobahn, where most drivers really know who to drive, than in the Bay Area.

IIRC, the accident rate has gone down (certainly it hasn't gone up) since speed limits were raised.

Tony
New That's interesting.
There's a local stretch of almost-freeway near where I live that currently has a speed limit of 80km/h. It is a four-lane carriageway, but undivided and with no intersections except at the two ends. When it got its last upgrade (extended it by about 3kms) it had a speed limit raised to 90 km/h. The accident rate went up until they lowered it again to 80 km/h. Didn't slow everyone down, obviously, but slowed enough of them down to make a difference.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New What Happens
Some people are going to speed, no matter what - and what happens is that they get mixed up with slower drivers - so raising the speed limit could help by reducing the relative speeds of demons to bluehairs.

Nevertheless, as soon as tolerance builds up, the speeders will "up the ante" and accident rates will rise again.

Hey, I used to drive like a bat out of hell. Then I saw the grisly consequences of bad wrecks up close and personal, when I drove a cab. Called in the equipment on a guy who was wearing his tranmission. He was rather dead. Ugly. Cured me bigtime. Not much good can happen to you in a car.
New Beg to differ
Not much good can happen to you in a car.

I guess that depends on the company you have with you in the car.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
New Oh Yeah
Forgot about that. Nothing like having your hound with his head in the breeze as navigator with Tim McGraw on the tape deck...

Oh, you mean THAT....in a Civic??
New Learning safe driving.
Some friends of my sister are veterans at driving on icy roads. How? They've been down to the snow regularly for many years, initially in a bomb of a car that they probably had a few close scrapes with. Result: they have the solid experience and Know What To Do.

I've also seen some phenomenal things on Mt Panorama at Bathurst (V8 racing, if you don't know) that could only be pulled off by drivers experienced in taking literally centimetre chances. One in particular was one guy got his car spun out on the track facing the wrong way and with a mere fraction of a second to spare spun it round on the track between racing cars to face the right way and keep racing. That is experience.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Anecdotes
Cincinnati drivers are horrible in poor weather.

I've never seen traffic as bad in rain as in snow. But here you are. Egads.

Now, *some* rain and *some* snow will crush driving conditions no matter where you are. But here, you get a little drizzle, you get a lot of congestion. I don't understand it.
French Zombies are zapping me with lasers!
New Dreading that first snow
Sometime in the next few months, a flake or two will hit the I-system here in Milwaukee. It will be about 40 degrees F. The snow will melt as it hits. There will be no accumulation on roads, no ice, not a whole lot of water.

People will panic. Traffic will crawl. Fenders will be bent. The TV and radio weather and traffic people will orgasm on the air about the crisis. They might even create a new logo for the storm.

A few weeks later, the roads will be a slick grey deathtrap and the drivers going 20 under the limit on that nearly dry surface will be doing 20 over the limit on a genuinely dangerous surface and dying - taking others with them. And it will take at least three inches of snow for a storm to rate a name and logo. We get about a half dozen storm like that per year.
White guys in suits know best
- Pat McCurdy
New Q for you Unfortunates in the white, soon-grey zones
Are there any areas, cities (other than enroute to ski playgrounds) which require chains? At all? Under certain circumstances?

If so - are 'snow tires' then deemed an adequate equivalent?

(Or is it all left up to Darwinism and Tee Vee er 'manufactured consent' via infoterrorment?)



Hmmm - maybe a Hum-Vee *could* have some rational purpose: if it's left to Darwin out there.
New No chains required anywhere around here, as far as I know
But then, I tend to stick to the City during winter.

Milwaukee isn't really all that bad for driving in snow. All it takes, except for maybe one or two days per winter, and we tend to sit those out, is decent tires and sane driving. Which means slowing down when the roads are slippery, and realizing that 4 wheel drive doesn't help you stop. And go out and play a little in a parking lot or something every winter, so you know how your machine acts in a skid.
White guys in suits know best
- Pat McCurdy
New Not *allowed*, usually
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
New We had some freaky weather a few weeks ago.
Which is why my sister mentioned her friends. It dumped snow on the Southern Highlands and the Blue Mountains - two regions of New South Wales that almost never get snowed on. In fact, it dumped nearly a foot of snow. The TV news crews got a few locals on camera complaining about the unusually high amount of traffic (!) - most of it city tourists (!!) who clearly didn't know how to drive on an icy road.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Re: Dreading that first snow
You just ligtened my day a lot. "a flake or two"------ classic.
French Zombies are zapping me with lasers!
New the first snow in florida is around the corner
huge storms of whiteheaded flakes clogging the roadways with their first car. Shudder.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Nope, speed by itself isn't that important
it going with the flow of traffic, doing what people expect you to do, etc.

A guy weaving through traffic is very dangerous, trying to do 75 mph when traffic is flowing at 35 mph. We have plenty of people trying to do that here. But, it's also dangerous for some one to going 50 mph when the traffic is flowing at 65 mph -- and we also have plenty of them here.

If speed kills, then most fatal accidents would occur on the highway. This isn't true; for example, when I was studying up on the autobahn before going over to Germany one source claimed that, IIRC, less than 12% of all traffic accidents occured on the autobahn.

And, one reason is that the vast majority of German drivers act predictably (both on the autobahn and city streets -- I drove over 3000 km plus was a passenger too). For example, I only saw 1 person weaving through traffic, and I'm not sure he was German (driving a Lexus, very rare in Germany, so might have been an American). I'd say the majority were also much better, crisper drivers than the average here. Now Spain, that's a different matter....

So, yes, speeding can be dangerous....for example, mixed with alcohol, drag racing on city streets (e.g. Charlotte Hornet basketball player who crashed his Porsche at 100+ mph), weaving through traffic, etc. But, in the middle of Texas on a deserted interstate that goes straight for hundreds of miles, 100+ mph can be very safe.

I'd like to see more tickets based on unsafe driving and fewer based on exceeding an arbitrary number -- if it could be done reasonably objectively.

Tony
New Autobahn
I'm not so sold on the Autobahn.

Traffic densities are generally quite high. German drivers are incredibly aggressive, and the expectation is that there is a righ to speed, though to their credit, the "fast lane" is a passing lane, and there is no tendency to lane hogging that's so common in the US (don't get me started on midwest drivers) is gone. What you've got to worry about is the speed differentials. Trucks are restricted to 110 km/h, meaning they're doing about 65 MPH. I found 140 km/h was a comfortable speed (85 MPH -- about what I drive in the US, given open highway), which was about normal, though the fast lane traffic was far above this, with 200 kph (120 MPH) not uncommon.

Problem is when there's a traffic slowdown, and these come from several causes. Speed is restricted in urban areas. Speed limits are dynamically set to road conditions (not altogether a bad thing), indicated by electronic signs on the highway, but this means you can't count on knowing the speed limit for a given stretch of road. Worst is when there's some sort of tie-up. Traffic goes from current speed (65, 85, 120 mph) to a crawl, in seconds. This is where horrific accidents occur, Germany's notorious for families being wiped out in an instant on the highways. Stories of trucks jacknifed across highways and cars running underneath them....

It's interesting, but a bit high-tension for my tastes. Nevada state route 375 is an entirely different issue.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]

What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
New Don't agree -- for aggressive drivers, try driving in Spain
they'll honk their horns and blink their lights in a heartbeat, even if you can't move. But that doesn't matter to them. And, driving in Madrid is totally unlike anything in Germany, or here.

OTOH, as long as I passed and then got over, the faster German drivers slowed down and didn't tailgate. In Spain or some people here, well, they'd be a lot more aggressive. Overall, the Germans were much better at merging, too (one of my pet peeves in California).

Yes, there were some rapid slow downs -- and often use of emergency blinkers by the cars in front to indicate them. But, you get that here, everyday -- of course, if you're a local you know where they're likely to be, but that's try anywhere.

I saw a lot of areas with posted speed limits, and many areas don't have electronic signs -- IIRC that was in more congested areas. Traffic densities vary all over the place; for example, Stuttgart to Karlsruhe was quite high, but many areas it's pretty low (most areas outside the major cities) although still much higher than many parts of the US.

It's definitely more stressfull than long distance US driving, and I don't think German style driving would work here -- partly because I think a large country is better suited to more relaxed driving (US style) and partly because people already think driving is a right so there's no way to change to the German system (where a licence costs around $500 and you have to go to driving school).

However, I still think it would be good to seriously upgrade driver education and testing requirements. This would be a much better use of money than most other things the states spend their money on. There are way too many people on the road who simply don't have a clue.

Tony
New huh, sounds like going to san fran from reno
"Traffic goes from current speed (65, 85, 120 mph) to a crawl, in seconds."
One of my all time fav roads is the 395 from the LA cutoff to reno, during a weekday.
light traffic enough twists to scream and petal to the medal with a wizz break in the middle.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Sure hope it's a new girlfriend.
Alex

Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
-- Anne Frank
New Oh Hell Yes
A *lot* newer than me, brother 8)
New Good news! For a moment there, I feared you regressed.
Alex

Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
-- Anne Frank
New very good news.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
     Camaro cop car - (DonRichards) - (37)
         We've had those around here for a few years.. - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
             Legal issue over here. - (inthane-chan)
         They've had those here for a long time. - (admin) - (34)
             Yeah, the big Crown Vics... - (Fearless Freep) - (33)
                 Unmarked cars common here in .au too - (Meerkat) - (32)
                     Re: Unmarked cars common here in .au too - (Fearless Freep) - (31)
                         They tried it here, was generally known as 'Pigs in Space':) - (Meerkat)
                         my last speeding ticket... - (cforde) - (29)
                             Automated speed cameras... - (static)
                             Speeding is Stupid and Dangerous - (deSitter) - (27)
                                 sorry about yer girlfriends brother glad you have her -NT - (boxley)
                                 speeding - (cforde)
                                 Life is.. - (Ashton) - (2)
                                     Not Against Risk - (deSitter) - (1)
                                         Clearer - (Ashton)
                                 Nope, much more important factors - (tonytib) - (17)
                                     That's interesting. - (static) - (16)
                                         What Happens - (deSitter) - (15)
                                             Beg to differ - (drewk) - (1)
                                                 Oh Yeah - (deSitter)
                                             Learning safe driving. - (static) - (8)
                                                 Anecdotes - (wharris2) - (7)
                                                     Dreading that first snow - (mhuber) - (6)
                                                         Q for you Unfortunates in the white, soon-grey zones - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                             No chains required anywhere around here, as far as I know - (mhuber)
                                                             Not *allowed*, usually -NT - (drewk)
                                                         We had some freaky weather a few weeks ago. - (static)
                                                         Re: Dreading that first snow - (wharris2) - (1)
                                                             the first snow in florida is around the corner - (boxley)
                                             Nope, speed by itself isn't that important - (tonytib) - (3)
                                                 Autobahn - (kmself) - (2)
                                                     Don't agree -- for aggressive drivers, try driving in Spain - (tonytib)
                                                     huh, sounds like going to san fran from reno - (boxley)
                                 Sure hope it's a new girlfriend. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (3)
                                     Oh Hell Yes - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Good news! For a moment there, I feared you regressed. -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                                         very good news. -NT - (cforde)

For Thanks-giv-ing we had ta-ters, suc-co-tash and ru-ta-ba-gas.
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