Like he said ^^^^

Post #57,005 by drewk 10/15/02 1:49:56 PM Reply	Like he said ^^^^ In the Marines it's 500m, but the target stays up longer. Even with that, on a calm day about 5% of the shooters will be scoring head shots consistently at that range. And no, this isn't specialized units. This is with whoever has to qualify that month. This isn't even really bragging (too much)[1]. Having been through the training, I'm confident they can teach just about anyone who really wants to learn to do the same in about two weeks. [1] If I can rest my elbows on something I'm good for consistent head shots at 300m, body shots at 500. But make me stand up and just hold it, I might as well throw the rounds down range for all the good it does me. Apparently the hands are steady, the body ... not so much. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #57,009 by deSitter 10/15/02 2:05:19 PM Reply	Re: Like he said ^^^^ Let's say the kill zone in the head is 6" in diameter. At 500m, this subtends an angle of 7 minutes of arc. For comparison, the Moon is about 30. That's 1/4 the diamemter of the Moon. To do that consistently would require a very good marksman. But is is possible. In contrast, a 6' man is 12 times as big, or 3 times the size of the Moon - or about the size of the Moon if you just consider the torso. I could hit that with a slingshot! I suppose the M16 has a very high muzzle velocity so the slug flies true. Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Whitman (UT clock tower) were famous shooters. What did they have in common? -drl
Post #57,012 by deSitter 10/15/02 2:13:41 PM 10/15/02 2:18:17 PM Reply	Argh! Forgot to convert to radians. That makes it more interesting. Everything is reduced by a factor of 2pi = 6.3 - so the body shot is difficult, the head shot extremely difficult. The head is reduced to about 1 minute of arc - the size of the planet Venus at inferior conjunction, and just a little bigger than Jupiter at opposition! -drl Edited by deSitter Oct. 15, 2002, 02:18:17 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #57,022 by drewk 10/15/02 3:59:43 PM Reply	Yes it does I suppose the M16 has a very high muzzle velocity so the slug flies true. According to [link\|http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/7e931335d515626a8525628100676e0c/6a60172b3db3d5ce8525627b0062d928?OpenDocument\|this][1]: Maximum effective range: Area target: 2,624.8 feet (800 meters) Point target: 1,804.5 feet (550 meters) Muzzle velocity: 2,800 feet (853 meters) per second In their lexicon, "point target" means accurate enough for man-sized targets, "area target" means accurate enough for vehicles or clustered groups of personnel. The figures are also baseline for an "average" rifle. It is possible to "tune" one to be even better. In short, it's possible for a decent shooter with a M-16 and iron sights (ie: no scope) to score headshots from more than far enough away to escape identification. And the rounds recovered so far are .223 calibre, which works out to the M-16's 5.56mm. Think .22 slug in a high-power rifle casing. This design trades superior long-range accuracy for decreased stopping power. [1] Blargh, what a great URL. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #57,122 by static 10/16/02 6:02:13 AM Reply	OT: The URL. That's a Lotus Domino (nee Notes) server. :-) See the ".nsf" buried in the middle? That's how you know. Wade. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #57,013 by Silverlock 10/15/02 2:36:02 PM Reply	Some people are just naturals Before joining the army, the only weapons I had ever fired were BB Guns, bow and arrows and slingshots. With only the Army's standard training, I managed to fire expert with every weapon they put in my hands. In qualifications I missed one target out of 70 with M16, hit all targets with 45 pistol, 50 cal. machine gun, M60 machine gun, M203 grenade launcher, TOW anti-tank, "personnel launched" hand grenade and my mortar crew also came in with top scores (I was loader, computer and FO at different times). </brag> Paying attention to the instruction and not having any bad habits to break did the trick. Hitting a human sized target at 100 meters is easily done by most human type persons with any reasonably accurate rifle. "A civilian gang of thieving lobbyists for the military industrial complex is running the White House. If to be against them is considered unpatriotic -- Hell, then call me a traitor." -- Hunter S. Thompson

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