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New Ai music maker
https://youtu.be/d6IGHUCZQOI?si=Qd8WjvRTL4N9Qe7K

Start watching at 4:11. It takes about a minute until the full impact is felt. I showed this to M and she flipped on her attitude towards AI. Before this video it was just this random innocuous thing out in the periphery. Now unless your job is physical, the AI mental robot is gunning for you. And when robots become cheap enough, those jobs are next.

Most advances in AI are at an esoteric level. Unless it's directly within your field, it's easy to ignore. But everybody listens to music.

To start off I want to write a song. I'm too lazy or incompetent to write it myself so I feed an idea to GPT and it kicks the lyrics out for me. ChatGPT can flesh out ideas. It is all the vocabulary associated with those ideas and it can make them rhyme.

I then feed it into Suno. I choose a genre of music or I create a new one. I spin a few dials, a check off a few boxes to say male or female or somewhere in between and a few other options and I hit generate. I generate 20 or 30 versions and then I do a bit of fine tuning and I'm ready to cut the new song.

Multiply that by millions of people. There will be a tsunami of new music coming. 99% crap I'm sure. But that's my job to say that. All music beyond my generations music is crap. Whether human or AI generated.

I focused on learning about programming assistant style AI because that impacts my historical career. (I have no career right now). That is something I consider myself qualified to judge on the progress. The rest is goblygook. And I see advances that blow me away but don't totally remove the requirement to have programmers. Just those programmers better make really good use of AI so they're not outclassed by the programmers that are.

But those types of demos are worthless to show non-programmers. A generic music producing AI workflow is hard because those music lyrics require a deep understanding of what's going on. Or at least the ability to fake it really well. Plus the ability to empathize and emote or fake it. Stringing those words together with the correct intonation is not easy. And that pretty much covers 90% of professions.
New Fewer people, more leverage
Look at the producers and studios that put out hit after hit, artist after artist. They find someone with a good look and basic competence and they can turn them into, if not stars, at least solid acts.

Their skill isn't performing, it's knowing what people want. They can listen to a hundred demos in an afternoon and pick out the 2 or 3 that have a shot. Now they can skip the submission process and just create it themselves. The basic competence will always be there, but their main skill - knowing what people want - still applies.
--

Drew
New No.
But everybody listens to music.


Not really.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New I accept that
Most people listen to music. Is that a reasonable assumption or am I projecting?

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+percentage+of+the+general+population+listens+to+music

Okay, at least I'm correct there. Or at least in the US since other countries/cultures have a different musical attitudes. And it's forbidden in some places, those evil bastards.
New Oh sure, most people do -- and I think that's a problem.
The older I get, the more convinced I become that my grumpy old father was right in observing, back when the Walkman was new (late 1970s, early 80s, was it?): "Seems people want to marinate their brains in constant background noise. Must be to drown out their own thoughts."

My own additions over the decades have amounted only to an equally cynical: Or cover up the lack thereof, or make sure there aren't any in the first place.

I really think the world would be better off if people didn't do that.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Music is a gift
I can't produce it. I can only enjoy it. Yes, the Walkman was the late '70s. I had one.

Music turns any task of drudgery into an enjoyable pastime. Clean the house with music and I'm bopping along having a good time. Clean the house without music and I am a sad and depressed person. Music makes all the difference in the world.

Yes, I can't have music when I am attempting to be productive. It is too distracting. Even the music without words can't beat silence when trying to be productive. But methamphetamine combined with jackhammer ear plugs comes close.

Back to music. Music is great and anyone who doesn't enjoy music is brain damaged in some manner. I don't have a hope of predicting their thought process and I certainly can't trust that my thought patterns will ever align with theirs so I should stay away from them.
New Speaking of music, I consider this one of the most beautiful pieces I've ever experienced
https://youtu.be/qV9C6Am8xzk?si=HkCtZoMCwZBYZ0ix
M mentioned that she found something I was worried about. So she eased my mind. And this song came to mind.

Obviously I missed out on the fact that Judas was pissed at Christ for wasting money that should have gone to the poor. Christ was a prick. At least in this portrayal.

I am very happy that I live in a time that I can repeat the following pattern. A daily experience reminds me of a song. I hum a bar or two of the song and then go: I can have this for real. 30 seconds of YouTube searching later shows me half a dozen copies of this song, some live, some raw recorded and other's artistically recorded with an MTV video. I click on the one I want and enjoy.

This is incredible. Before my time frame, it would be a matter of old people chanting by the fire. Or very rich people being entertained by the musicians. And then recordings showed up a few decades before my birth. And the world changed.

In my youth it was limited to the number of records I could afford. Or the amount of time I could waste while recording off the radio. As I got older it became a matter of how many CDs I was willing to carry around with me. I had a thousand lb of CDs in milk crates. And it was an enormous amount of effort to go find a particular song to listen to. I'm so happy I sold them all at a used record store.

Now I have at will choice of an infinite amount of music. I don't know how long this will last but I will enjoy it while it does.
Expand Edited by crazy April 9, 2024, 05:12:46 AM EDT
New That’s the most Scandahoovian thing I’ve heard for a while.
Did he also regard food having appealing flavour and texture as unnecessary frivolity?
New You don't see the difference between food, necessary for life, being tasty...
....and having totally unnecessary muzak blaring in your ears all the time?

Also, seeing how my Dad was as TcheRRman as it gets -- descended from Prussian Junkers -- I don't think his idea was particularly Scandalahoovian.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Sigh
Stop enjoying what I don't (or feel too guilty to) enjoy!

How does a culture that indoctrinates that not die off just from mass suicide? Full-Time depression as a way of life is not that attractive.

Also, my music is not muzak, it is very tasty. I don't take whatever's thrown at me, I choose everything I listen to. It's not a requirement for life but it sure adds a whole bunch of spice to make it more pleasurable. And it's not full-time. I haven't turned any music on today. But just having the choice sitting there makes me feel good.
New No no, you keep on enjoying whatever the fuck you want to enjoy.
Just don't fool yourself into ignoring what it actually is you're enjoying -- freedom from thought -- or thinking that not listening to your own thoughts -- not thinking -- is necessarily a good thing.

I mean, you indulge in the Weed, but there you do it as a calculated risk, don't you? You know it probably isn't good for you, but you decide to do it anyway to some limited extent that you feel you can afford. I think there is some such extent beyond which people can't afford to numb their brains with muzak either. And yes, good for you that you seem to treat your "music" (however "tasty" your personal brand of muzak may be...) the same way.

But judging from how indiscriminately and incessantly most people seem to be blaring stuff at their own brains, that idea never occurred to most people. So they don't do that calculation and just blithely pop in their earbuds and drown out whatever they otherwise might be thinking, for far too much of their limited time on Earth. That's why I'm all in favour of you doing whatever the fuck you want to your brain -- it's yours, not mine, after all, so your problem, not mine -- but I'm not in favour of you or anyone else minimising this issue, or (the ultimate minimising) even acknowledging that it even exists at all.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New K.
"Drowning out your thoughts" is orthogonal to "listening to music".

Personally, music helps me organize my thoughts. YMMV, and apparently does.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Re: No no, you keep on enjoying whatever the fuck you want to enjoy.
Bold of you to assume all the things you assume here:
Just don’t fool yourself into ignoring what it actually is you’re enjoying – freedom from thought – or thinking that not listening to your own thoughts – not thinking – is necessarily a good thing.


ETA: Also, have you considered that the problem is you, and you’re basically incompetent at listening to music whilst doing other things?
Expand Edited by pwhysall April 22, 2024, 03:36:21 PM EDT
New Nope, that's not it. Neither of them.
Bold of you to assume all the things you assume here:
Just don’t fool yourself into ignoring what it actually is you’re enjoying – freedom from thought – or thinking that not listening to your own thoughts – not thinking – is necessarily a good thing.
Can't really see how that's much of an asumption. It's what people here have pretty much said themselves.

have you considered that the problem is you, and you’re basically incompetent at listening to music whilst doing other things?

No, I don't think that's it. I just don't see why I would want to. Why should I?

But yeah, I think I can chew bubblegum and walk at the same time.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New It’s not what people have said at all
In fact, Scott said “Personally, music helps me organize my thoughts”, which is the stone cold opposite of what you’re saying.

Look, you do you. You enjoy listening to the sound of your own inner monologue reminding you you’re right all the time? Awesome. Knock yourself out.

But don’t bring your “can’t listen to music and think at the same time” energy around here and expect it to be a shared experience.

And I have no idea what that video is all about, other than “thanks, I hate it”.
New Better Swedish music:
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Sweden has explaining to do.
New WTF!?!?
Someone recorded this and put it out for other people to critique on purpose?!

At a minute I started hitting buttons to try to at least understand a translation. No translation. Oh well. No. I will not assault my senses with this garbage. People do this on purpose?

In the old days I used to listen to Black Sabbath. Many intros in Black Sabbath was random garbage. Like these people just got their first guitar lesson. It was crap. And then little bits and pieces built from the edges. And then you find out how masterful it was. It all came together in this incredible crescendo of perfection. I'm not giving this video the 10 minutes to see if it's going to get there. I do nothing all day and yet I still would not give this particular video that time out of my life. Unless you tell me it's worth it as opposed to something you posted just to torture me.
New It's 10 minutes of the same 30 second loop.
You're welcome.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Strobe warning!
Holy s***! Are you trying to trigger seizures!?

Okay, yes. Sweden's got some explaining to do. This is not music. Computer!!! Create me noise that will cause seizures in humans! Computer response: Got it!

But: I have no idea what they're saying. Give me some English translation so I have a better idea of what they are trying to do here. I have no idea how to even try. Exercise left to reader.
New Reader = you. Start with the video title. Or read the comments.
New K. Actually not. GIYF FFS, don't be so lazy.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New trigger seazures? listen to Abba
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Get off my lawn alert
Uh-Oh, I triggered the smartest man alive.

For many years I nurtured the illusion that I was the smartest guy in the room. Except for the most part, I knew it wasn't true because I chose the people that were in the room. I hired them as part of my team and I wanted them smarter than me because I knew the smarter they were the better my team would be. Executives would always discount the smarter people around me and tried to stroke me by telling me how smart I was. Because they knew that as long as they kept me happy they'd make money.

I didn't care about the stroking but I sure loved the salary. They didn't realize that style of stroking is insulting. I don't give a s*** what you think of my code. You can't possibly understand my code or the effort that went into my code. But here you are telling me how brilliant I am because of my code. This could be pig Latin for all you knew and you'd still be saying the same thing. Executive stroking is annoying. Good thing the job was usually fun.

I knew my place in the world then and I know it now. I was a part of a team of three people whose project ended in the result of the death of 60,000 people in the United States as of a certain date about 8 years ago according to the radio report. So I figure I'm personally responsible for the death of 20,000 people. This was not a weapons project. This was a junk mail project. So I have an oversized sensitivity of the ability of individuals to actually have a large impact on other people. Usually negatively though. Something tells me you're still trying to figure yourself out.

At this point I'm not competing in the tech world. At this point I don't have any personal situation where I need to be competing with anyone. That's when I have to be smart. F*** that, I'd rather be happy.

The roughest moment of my life on a daily basis is trying to figure out what the f*** that noise was?! The cat just grabbed something and flung it across the room. And then it comes barreling at me and throws its 20 lb body against my chest and nuzzles my neck and we cuddle and purr. What did you do today that made you that happy, the level of happiness I have every 10 minutes? That's it. The roughest moment is a step just below joy.

Besides music, you want to know the perfect distraction to zone into? Kitten videos, puppy videos, puppy and kitten together videos. Get that oxytocin running. You probably want me to stop watching those too.

So yes, I will keep on enjoying my life, thank you very much, with or without music.
Expand Edited by crazy April 25, 2024, 12:25:46 PM EDT
Expand Edited by crazy April 25, 2024, 12:39:50 PM EDT
New Music is necessary for my mental health
Necessary, not optional, mandatory.
New That noise you listen to isn't music :⁠-⁠P
This is the part where Petey brings up the hair metal I had on my HD when we all started sharing our collections.
--

Drew
New Sounds like a weird crutch. Is there an underlying issue to try to address in stead?
New Yes. The underlying issue is that music is food for the soul.
So sorry you don’t understand this.

What’s your crutch? Everyone has one. No exceptions.
New Are you one of those people who has to turn down the car radio so you can focus on a street address?
Lots of people on the spectrum can't tune out distractions.
--

Drew
New I am
Good thing the Kia Niro has my phone GPS and music integrated and when the GPS needs to talk it quickly fades out the music and says what it needs to say and then fades the music back in. I love that feature! .

I also yell at M to shut up while she continues to talk. I'm about to miss a turn. I'm driving in traffic that I have to weave around. We could die any second. I'm trying to figure out what to do next. I know the voice will tell me what to do next.

High stress moment. Life and death decisions. Or merely being late. We're about to miss a plane. It's usually about to miss a plane since that's the only time I drive nowadays.

And M continues to talk over the voice but now is talking louder. And I miss the turn. And then I have 10 minutes drive around and pull a u-turn and explain to M that she has to shut up when the b**** is talking. The b**** is telling me what to do. You are not telling me what to do at that moment, the b**** is telling me what to do, and you are talking over the b****. Can you tell I have a love-hate relationship with my GPS?
New It's been a problem for ebooks for years.
There are authors on Amazon who aren't authors, but use older versions of these Markov engines to create novels. They're highly formulaic and trashy but the volume means they sell enough.

Wade.
New Robots
Silicon is cheap, iron is expensive.
New What's an average factory/ blue collar worker cost per year?
I'm going to start with an incredibly cheap $15 an hour. That's 31k. Then add in whatever overhead per employee such as HR and management costs. Add in any benefits. Let's cap it at a cheap 50k. Keep in mind there will come a point where human infrastructure such as bathrooms will become optional. Which means certain plumbing will become optional for certain buildings. There are huge swaths of expense that can be removed once people are out of the picture in a manufacturing environment. If it gets more expensive per employee then the robots become more attractive. If the operation is capable of 24x7 operation then that means a robot can replace three employees. But let's knock that down to two and give the robot a shift to be maintained.

At this point the value of the robot is 100k per year. The robot will not bitch at the boss or spread anti-company gossip or attempt to unionize, or sue the company, etc etc etc. There is a whole lot of benefit to the robot, far beyond the money savings, but let's start there.

What is the reasonable expected payback time for this type of factory floor automation? I see between 6 months and 5 years so I'm just going to make up 2 years. That would be 200k.

The moment the robot is cheaper than 200k, it becomes reasonable to replace the person with it from a simple cost benefit analysis based on these assumptions. Since you see I went cheap if the people are any more expensive then the robots can be more expensive or will have a quicker payback.

A factory floor worker in a auto manufacturing plant costs a hell of a lot more than 50k per year. People digging in mines make a hell of a lot more than 50k a year. Either way the robots I see capable of factory automation don't look like they cost more than 200k to build. When they go full factory level automation I say they cost 50k and are sold for 100K for a healthy profit margin while still being very attractive to the final consumer companies.

Also, the robots don't have to be general purpose. They just have to be cost-effective enough replace people and the production environment and the company will be willing to modify the environment to accommodate the robots if that meant they could get cheaper robots. Legs and feet and a highly specialized balancing system is a lot more expensive than treads. So if we don't need the thing to walk steps then it can have the much cheaper treads. If the job is a person sitting at a single location and reaching forward with their hands and then swiveling, then there doesn't need to be any mobility at all. No mobility requirement means no battery packs and full-time wall power. Much cheaper.

The reason all of this is possible now is because we didn't have a vision driven manually dexterous system. The AI brings it all together. Now let's see what the bare minimum of human-like parts are required to replace a factory worker on an assembly line. Eyes arms hands fingers attached on a swiveling pole. There will be lots of those type of balancing decisions to keep the costs down.

Iron may be expensive relative to silicon, but it's far cheaper than people.
Expand Edited by crazy April 7, 2024, 11:00:28 AM EDT
Expand Edited by crazy April 7, 2024, 11:20:02 AM EDT
Expand Edited by crazy April 9, 2024, 04:45:02 AM EDT
     Ai music maker - (crazy) - (32)
         Fewer people, more leverage - (drook)
         No. - (CRConrad) - (27)
             I accept that - (crazy) - (26)
                 Oh sure, most people do -- and I think that's a problem. - (CRConrad) - (25)
                     Music is a gift - (crazy) - (1)
                         Speaking of music, I consider this one of the most beautiful pieces I've ever experienced - (crazy)
                     That’s the most Scandahoovian thing I’ve heard for a while. - (pwhysall) - (22)
                         You don't see the difference between food, necessary for life, being tasty... - (CRConrad) - (21)
                             Sigh - (crazy) - (14)
                                 No no, you keep on enjoying whatever the fuck you want to enjoy. - (CRConrad) - (13)
                                     K. - (malraux)
                                     Re: No no, you keep on enjoying whatever the fuck you want to enjoy. - (pwhysall) - (10)
                                         Nope, that's not it. Neither of them. - (CRConrad) - (9)
                                             It’s not what people have said at all - (pwhysall) - (8)
                                                 Better Swedish music: - (malraux) - (7)
                                                     Sweden has explaining to do. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                     WTF!?!? - (crazy) - (1)
                                                         It's 10 minutes of the same 30 second loop. - (malraux)
                                                     Strobe warning! - (crazy) - (3)
                                                         Reader = you. Start with the video title. Or read the comments. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                         K. Actually not. GIYF FFS, don't be so lazy. -NT - (malraux)
                                                         trigger seazures? listen to Abba -NT - (boxley)
                                     Get off my lawn alert - (crazy)
                             Music is necessary for my mental health - (pwhysall) - (5)
                                 That noise you listen to isn't music :⁠-⁠P - (drook)
                                 Sounds like a weird crutch. Is there an underlying issue to try to address in stead? -NT - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                     Yes. The underlying issue is that music is food for the soul. - (pwhysall)
                                     Are you one of those people who has to turn down the car radio so you can focus on a street address? - (drook) - (1)
                                         I am - (crazy)
         It's been a problem for ebooks for years. - (static)
         Robots - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
             What's an average factory/ blue collar worker cost per year? - (crazy)

Her English wasn't so good...
105 ms