Post #435,093
7/10/20 9:01:08 AM
7/10/20 9:01:08 AM
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I think you're conflating two things that don't need conflating.
Most of post-war Europe didn't have a scooby about what was going on inside America.
Most of Europe only got any information about America from Hollywood films and the odd news story, at least until the advent of television and even then, popular culture was the prime messaging medium. Y'all should have made less racist films and TV, basically.
You see, until very recently, no-one outside the US actually gave much of a shiny shit about what you weirdos were up to, because it didn't matter; but now, America's internal shuddering upheavals have global consequences, so it's a fool who doesn't pay attention.
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Post #435,096
7/10/20 9:50:35 AM
7/10/20 9:52:29 AM
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Disagree.
It is not unreasonable to suggest that the Marshall Plan contributed significantly to the esteem with which the US was held following WWII. Britain received much more than even Germany did through the Marshall Plan.
To suggest no one looked the gift horse in the mouth, while perhaps understandable, is unsettling. Such a position implies that post-WWII Europeans didn't care who gave them the money to rebuild. They'd take it from anyone without regard to the contributors decency or ethics. A variant of the Soviet apologist's "Stalin was brutal. But he inherited a nation using wooden plows and turned it into a nuclear power," if you will.
Neither you nor I were alive then. But, you are there and have grown to adulthood there. I'd normally be inclined to defer to you on this point. But the fact remains that at the height of our reputation we were deeply flawed, particularly on matters of race (and, not to put too fine a point on it, remain so today). But the UK is far from being without sin in this regard. I think you'd have to admit that the Brexit vote was won by appealing to racism far more than the uncountably many non-race based false claims made by Leave leaders.
So, was it blindness (willful or otherwise) or common bigotry that allowed our reputation to achieve its height in Europe in an era when our government was passing and enforcing the most racist laws in our post Civil War history? I cannot say I know the answer to that question. You're in a better position than I to answer that question, so feel free to choose the one that suits you best.
For my part, it still seems incongruous that we could be thought of so highly when our Federal Government was doing things like requiring clauses in deeds to read, "this property will never be transferred to ownership nor rental by Blacks" in order to gain a Fair Housing Administration loan and in the era of apartheid.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
Edited by mmoffitt
July 10, 2020, 09:52:29 AM EDT
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Post #435,098
7/10/20 10:05:39 AM
7/10/20 10:05:39 AM
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You answer your own question
So, was it blindness (willful or otherwise) or common bigotry that allowed our reputation to achieve its height in Europe in an era when our government was passing and enforcing the most racist laws in our post Civil War history? I cannot say I know the answer to that question. You're in a better position than I to answer that question, so feel free to choose the one that suits you best. Blindness, like I just fuckin' said :D
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Post #435,102
7/10/20 11:55:27 AM
7/10/20 11:55:27 AM
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Willful?
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
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Post #435,103
7/10/20 11:58:48 AM
7/10/20 11:58:48 AM
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Now you're just being obtuse.
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Post #435,099
7/10/20 11:27:30 AM
7/10/20 11:27:30 AM
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in the 70's in england the local yout's asked me what kind of machine gun I owned
how many folks got killed in the bars on saturday night. All they know of america was from the movies.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #435,100
7/10/20 11:30:37 AM
7/10/20 11:30:37 AM
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Right - and unfortunately for the Russians . . .
. . they learned all about Capitalism from C and D level gangster movies - thus Putin and his pals.
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Post #435,104
7/10/20 11:59:05 AM
7/10/20 11:59:05 AM
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It couldn't have been "all movies" in the UK.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
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Post #435,105
7/10/20 12:02:39 PM
7/10/20 12:02:39 PM
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Stahp.
You asked a question, I answered it.
I will talk slowly, as if to a small child:
We just. didn't. care. about. American. domestic. news. and. events. There. were very. few. ways. of. getting. it. even. if. we. did.
The vast majority of those military personnel were on American bases where they had little to no interaction with The Limeys, other than getting pissed in the local pub.
And then, very shortly afterwards, the vast, vast majority of them fucked off home, as you would expect.
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