Post #421,006
10/23/17 10:11:44 PM
10/23/17 10:11:44 PM
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Fun with averages...
FranklinLeonard: Franklin Leonard Verified account @franklinleonard
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Franklin Leonard Retweeted Sarah Sanders
If I give 10 apples to one person and no apples to nine people, the average person has one apple.
Why are nine people mad at me?
Franklin Leonard added,
Sarah Sanders Verified account @PressSec
The average American family would get a $4,000 raise under the President’s tax cut plan. So how could any member of Congress be against it?
5:13 PM - 22 Oct 2017 Cheers, Scott.
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Post #421,007
10/23/17 11:32:03 PM
10/23/17 11:32:03 PM
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Re: Fun with averages...and beer, you forgot beer
Ten men go out for beer. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. He said, "Since you are all such good customers, I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80."
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men -- the paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share"? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay!
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"
"Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"
"That's true!!"shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2 ? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important.
They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
Thats when the chinese guy showed up and offered to lend them the money for the beer
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,009
10/24/17 8:28:13 AM
10/24/17 8:28:13 AM
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Oh, so we all receive the same thing for the taxes we pay?
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Post #421,018
10/24/17 7:00:35 PM
10/24/17 7:00:35 PM
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yes, President Obama said so
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,020
10/24/17 11:33:11 PM
10/24/17 11:33:11 PM
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You know he said the opposite
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Post #421,032
10/25/17 3:44:49 PM
10/25/17 3:44:49 PM
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disagree
You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did all those are given to the rich and poor alike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_didn%27t_build_that
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,036
10/25/17 5:59:37 PM
10/25/17 5:59:37 PM
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Well, you knew which quote I was talking about anyway
How many trucks that I own have used those highways? all those are given to the rich and poor alike Were you intentionally bastardising this, or was it Freudian? In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.
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Post #421,037
10/25/17 6:28:10 PM
10/25/17 6:28:10 PM
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so you and the poor do not use roads, schools, police, hospitals at all, good to know
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,040
10/25/17 7:25:51 PM
10/25/17 7:25:51 PM
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Excluded middle ... Think I'll just reply with the logical fallacy you're using from now on
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Post #421,041
10/25/17 8:28:00 PM
10/25/17 8:28:00 PM
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you are not a middle? sorry thought you were
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,043
10/26/17 3:33:06 AM
10/26/17 3:33:06 AM
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Hey, BOx: All those times when you are being a massive arsehole, do you...
...just not realise that that is what you're being, or is it intentional?
And, although on the one hand everyone can be something -- insensitive, courageous, clumsy, inspiring, an arsehole -- for the moment, now and then... Isn't "being something for the moment" all the time the same as being that thing?
Just wondering.
-- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
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Post #421,062
10/26/17 9:36:33 PM
10/26/17 9:36:33 PM
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no need to wonder, I realize that not going along with the group is deemed deplorable or worse
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,068
10/26/17 10:20:30 PM
10/26/17 10:20:30 PM
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It's not because you're not going with the group
You might like country music. I don't, but also don't care. But when you parrot RWNJ talking points* that's when I'll say you're wrong. It's not because what you're saying goes against the group. It's because what you're saying is bullshit.
* Sometimes it seems like you're smart enough to know better but say it anyway. Pretty sure that doesn't make it better.
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Post #421,069
10/26/17 10:25:03 PM
10/26/17 10:25:03 PM
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if you parrot Dem crap I will happily point out the other crap that counters it
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,071
10/27/17 1:28:54 AM
10/27/17 1:28:54 AM
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Oh for fuck's sake, don't even TRY that "not going along with the group" bullshit.
It's because you're consistently being intellectually dishonest.
You spew some crap, get called out on it, refuse to realise -- or admit -- where you're wrong... And blithely go on spewing the same disproven drivel over and over again. You are -- or at least seem to think you are -- debunk-proof.
For all the social interaction skills and intellectual growth you're demonstrating here, you could just as well be a bot the GOP bought on the cheap from some disinformatsija factory in Donetsk.
-- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
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Post #421,082
10/27/17 10:05:38 AM
10/27/17 10:05:38 AM
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long as I don't get paid in rubles
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,113
10/30/17 2:56:59 AM
10/30/17 2:56:59 AM
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Learn to fucking read: I said, that doesn't matter. You're behaving as if you were, so just as bad.
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Post #421,010
10/24/17 10:47:11 AM
10/24/17 10:47:11 AM
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The thing with massive oversimplifications...
...is that they massively oversimplify things.
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Post #421,017
10/24/17 6:26:32 PM
10/24/17 6:26:32 PM
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ya think?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,021
10/25/17 1:46:55 AM
10/25/17 1:46:55 AM
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Massive oversimplifications are almost always unhelpful
[goldacre]ITYFIABMCTT[/goldacre]
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Post #421,093
10/27/17 5:44:07 PM
10/27/17 5:44:07 PM
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A.E.'s fine summary of that:
~Things should be made as simple as possible. But not simpler.
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Post #421,033
10/25/17 4:38:49 PM
10/25/17 4:38:49 PM
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Snopes.
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Post #421,038
10/25/17 6:29:46 PM
10/25/17 6:29:46 PM
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what about snopes? I heard it on the radio in a slightly different form and looked it up online
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,045
10/26/17 5:25:12 AM
10/26/17 5:25:12 AM
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Neither of which makes it relevant or correct, which I think is AS's point.
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Post #421,048
10/26/17 8:36:20 AM
10/26/17 8:36:20 AM
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Yup.
There were several (unstated) points.
1) SHS's tweet was stupid. 2) Twitter is a horrible medium, especially for discussing complicated public policy issues. 3) Averages (especially the mean) hide lots of evils in non-Gaussian distributions. 4) Box's example is one of those horribly-slanted RWNJ e-mail forwards. Anyone who has been at a business lunch or dinner with a bunch of people knows the pitfalls (Mr. X got 3 bottles of wine and the surf and turf, and you got the salad, and Mr. X wants to split the check evenly because it's "simple and fair"...) 5) The premise of Box's story ("how taxes work" - the usual title in the RWNJ e-mail forward) is wrong. The rich pay more in taxes because they have the money and the wealth.
That is all. ;-)
Cheers, Scott.
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Post #421,061
10/26/17 9:34:33 PM
10/26/17 9:34:33 PM
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Neither was Nothers, was my point
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,026
10/25/17 8:16:01 AM
10/25/17 8:16:01 AM
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Not to mention that 4K is over eight years.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
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Post #421,027
10/25/17 8:24:59 AM
10/25/17 8:24:59 AM
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There was an NPR report about this yesterday.
It was fairly in-depth on the radio, but it was another example of what I find infuriating about so much of the news - there wasn't enough information for me to look at the original sources without additional searching. The web page on the story is much, much better, but still a bit too "both sides have a point"-ish for my taste. The point of this gutting of the corporate tax code is to enrich Donnie and others who set up weird corporate structures to avoid paying taxes. That is all. Real corporations have all kinds of deductions and the rest to reduce their corporate taxes already. (Of course, there are mom-and-pop businesses who do have real issues with the tax code, but anything the Teabaggers and Donnie want isn't going to help them.) Cheers, Scott.
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Post #421,029
10/25/17 8:47:01 AM
10/25/17 8:47:01 AM
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This is going to be a bigger heist than what was done in the 1980's.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
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Post #421,034
10/25/17 5:01:14 PM
10/25/17 5:01:14 PM
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GHW Bush had a name for it while running against Reagan in the GOP primary in 1980.
VOODOO economics!
Of course he had to eat those words while being Reagan's VP and Reagan doubled the national debt.
Alex
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
-- Isaac Asimov
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Post #421,039
10/25/17 6:30:31 PM
10/25/17 6:30:31 PM
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and from the numbers it looks like Donnie is set to do it again
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
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Post #421,046
10/26/17 8:26:26 AM
10/26/17 8:26:26 AM
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And worse.
To borrow a phrase, I am stunned, stunned that to this day Republican Tribe members insist that Reagan gave us "Morning in America" in the form of "economic revival" when he was the man who took the world's leading creditor nation and turned it into the world's leading debtor nation.
Quelle Suprise! The wealthy stop paying their fair share in taxes and the government goes into debt. Who knew that would happen?
Incredibly, the world's leading debtor nation, in the face of Reaganism *AND* the outcome of "The Kansas Experiment" is doubling down. I really hope my kids leave this nation of lunatics.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
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