Atrocities? Bah.

Post #4,168 by imric 8/8/01 8:29:47 AM Reply	Atrocities? Bah. Ash, my father was on the team that gathered the 'data' for the banning of DDT. The reason? It was too cheap, and effective. It was also a commodity. The real statistics do NOT show any causal relationship with the eggs of birds, or anything else above insectoid life. In fact, the only effect my dad found that it had on mammilian life was that factory workers producing it (they were covered in the stuff, like flour covers a baking pan) showed NO incidence of skin cancer. However, he did find traces of it in the damndest places (penguins, monkeys, etc.) - and they used that and the emotional reaction (it's a poison, it's got to be bad) to get it banned. In short, they used environmental 'conscience'... In fact, it was replaced by insecticides derived from the waste products of nerve gas production. Now THAT stuff was toxic. 'Bizness' indeed. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Post #4,287 by Ashton 8/8/01 5:19:07 PM Reply	I'd be impressed by a source like that.. And I don't pretend to have researched the sub-rosa activities of the ban. It may well have been so simple as, Hey this stuff IS everywhere! and.. we don't know what that might portend (and we Know we don't know) so: ?what to do? I'd venture to guess though - that we still don't 'know' what are the overall effects of such proliferation of an artificial substance.. As with: all the brake-dust, tire-tread dust, aerosols and their carried substances. Not enough interest, nor $. Was the DDT ban more about it being a no-profit commodity, than a possibly mistaken concern over proliferation?? Clearly the Drug Wars currently undermining many Constitutional principles - are akin to the former: Pharm Chem does NOT like natural, cheap, effective pain relievers - or, any Other kind of desirable untaxed substance. The Corp tax cannot be levied on tincture of Iodine, makes only peanuts on aspirin, etc. Maybe your dad was right - will consider self updated but not.. surprised. Now... can we disband the Narcs, decriminalize (lots of stuff) and stop bein a bunch of Puritan busybodies, for gossipy fun and huge profit? [Uh - No, I don't think we Can. Its so Murican a thing.] A.
Post #4,291 by imric 8/8/01 5:45:43 PM Reply	It was... Was the DDT ban more about it being a no-profit commodity, than a possibly mistaken concern over proliferation? Yes. When my Dad tells the story, he always laughs - and acts a bit cynical about it, but I always got the impression that that was the point that 'deflowered' him re: a career being a research chemist. It seemed to really disillusion him. Now... can we disband the Narcs, decriminalize (lots of stuff) and stop bein a bunch of Puritan busybodies, for gossipy fun and huge profit? Nah, our 'culture' has to evolve beyond sophomoric 'I know what's best for you' good intentions on the part of the people, and 'There's a sucker born every minute' on the part of our rulers (government/business). Not in this lifetime. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Post #4,309 by Another Scott 8/8/01 8:49:22 PM Reply	Science News story on DDT [link\|http://www.sciencenews.org/20000701/bob2.asp\|[link\|http://www.sciencenews.org/20000701/bob2.asp\|http://www.sciencen...701/bob2.asp]] is a story on DDT's use in controlling malaria, with a fairly balanced treatment. [link\|http://warrensburg.k12.mo.us/ew/ddt/matt.html\|This] story says the WHO credits DDT with saving the lives of 25 million people in Europe in the 1940s. It also says that only 1 person is known to have died from DDT - they mistook DDT powder for flour and made pancakes... Plusses and minuses like much of life.... Cheers, Scott.
Post #4,315 by imric 8/8/01 9:35:29 PM Reply	chuckle OT, and waxing nostalgic... Ah, dieldren - and let's not forget aldrin (No-Pest strips, Shell House & Garden sprays)... My old man was 'in' on those, too. I remember my father choking with laughter during the 'ad campaign' against DDT (Silent Spring featured prominently there) when a talk-show host had a guest that mentioned an 'insecticide' that killed her father. He recognized it. (I don't remember what it was - I was rather young) It was illegal. The farmer was spraying for CROWS, not insects. I have more faith in my father's evaluation of our chemical lifestyle than you find in science news and journals (though he WAS a bit of a 'mad scientist', truth to tell... He 'insect-proofed' our house with his own noxious, unapproved brew along the foundations when it was being built - we've never had problems with bugs since... grin). I still believe it's more business/politics than science. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Post #4,332 by Steve Lowe 8/9/01 2:05:58 AM Reply	heard similar anecdotes re: asbestos A local mall was shut down and refurbished due to asbestos insulation being discovered. I was there talking with one of the guys in the company that was doing the removal...don't really remember why I was there talking to him... Don't know how true this is, but he was telling me that there's more asbestos in the air in one day in any busy city (from car and truck brakes and clutches primarily) than there would be in that mall in 10 years. He seemed to think it was mostly ridiculous, but didn't mind taking people's money to remove it. However, I do know of one famliy who lost their livelihood because the icecream store they owned in the mall was forced out of business due to the mall being shut down. ----- Steve
Post #4,338 by imric 8/9/01 8:27:12 AM Reply	What's worse... ...is that it's harmless unless it's breathed... How does it get into the air? Through remediation! Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...

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