C'mon Doug - lumping a criticism of the trends away from democracy into.. something like Luddite behavior of the past, I deem a Red Herring. And please do not resurrect a rubric about change as if: Any change is tantamount to progress. Ergo any resistance to certain changes - must be [see Luddite]. We are adults here.

(Sorry you missed the implications of your 'Corporate Schematic' in the larger comedy of ongoing homo-sap master plans :-\ufffd )

All that happens in reality is that menial tasks get automated (computers aren't smart as much as fast). Robots are good at simple repetitive tasks.

To take it all to seriously is to misunderstand the needs & forces driving change & also the human spirit that has always been looking for ways to elevate mankind to higher planes of existance & ability.

Hah! So then - you see the effects thus far of a massive Corporatizing worldwide as ~~ changes in the direction of elevation of mankind ? Is that what you see, and believe is the direction?

Very well, then - at least our differences are clear in that regard - I see nothing like that occurring (except perhaps among a very few, but their direction is not Corporate-inspired - quite orthogonal).

You could examine the effect of the trends upon the chances for (growing numbers) to survive ouside of the agglomerating and homogenizing Corporate culture. The growing division into a mere 2-class society (here) works against any democratic social values. Corporate allegiance has little to do with geographic location or country of origin, or do you think otherwise?

As 'education' morphs increasingly towards mere 'office job prep skills', we here are losing much more than just lore about "soon-to-be deceased steam locomotives". (Hey we're even missing *that* option too - much as we trashed our railroad systems. AmTrack today has had to go begging again, to the Congress.)

You don't need refined diesel fuel to make use of the Carnot cycle: simply imagine a steam auto via modern techno, perhaps a hybrid concept - as, while the flash boiler is rapidly coming up to full performance. Not even on anyone's drawing board. And that's just one missing development re ongoing energy concerns. But you can make more money next quarter.. with the usual [oil] marketing - *that* is the corporate mindset always: short-term profits. Yours is different? What have I missed here?

Sorry but - if it's your view that the present Corporate trend constitutes some sort of human progress: I'm missing it. As with the HMO (in US - you may have been spared That experience):

Last year these were the most profitable Corporations of all - in a country where very expensive medicine is guaranteed via the insurance Corps and other traditional middle-men.. No national health plan yet, of course. YMMV in HK (?) Other rich countries have of course - faced those costs, and opted for a minimal guaranteed service for all. Our plan persists despite efforts to reform. (IMhO) - such efforts *would* be fiercely opposed / and are / present situation is simply vastly profitable for the many many middle-men between doctors and patients.

Corporatization is occurring here in other areas once deemed a (local or higher) government responsibility: prisons for *profit*, for one. In CA (larger than most nations): prisons be #1 growth industry: ~ #s off top of head - in a given period 17 new prisons; one new school. Guards receive better pay than profs in small colleges. (Of course all these phenomena are interrelated with the Corporate effects. Nothing can be really isolated, except in textbooks - with lots of graphs.)

Schools here may end up similarly; argument continues re the allowing of Tee Vee ads in schools: camel's nose is in that tent - but the natives are restless. Can't tell if restless enough.

Anyway, my point isn't *just* about the planned obsolescence of humans within Corporations [as a side goal, that is] - but about the overall homogenizing of human activity into the tawdry aims of The Office. And in the end and personally, after all the usual Econ graphology - I see Corporatization as guaranteeing the most boring human era yet.

Perhaps this phenom alone: could be the single largest contributor to worldwide creeping dumbth {??} We are seeing mega-Corps usurping governments, not just the US one. Whatever this might mean - it is not about any allegiance to societal concerns in any country of operations; it is about the wealth of the directing class. What Else is a Corporation formed to do?

I infer that you like your Corp experience thus far (?) I OTOH shall continue to despise the effects I see all around me: a world looking more and more like a Colossal McDonalds, serviced by drones and serving up pabulum. (And a few very rich folks trying to keep the trend going. 'Course they do need a few lieutenants, and many are willing to make that trade-off.) I say that we are building a Hive - and it will be quite efficient, but it won't be made to accommodate most humans. So your quote above - is about diametrically opposite my observations locally, and my extrapolations from 'here'.


Maybe you work for a quite different kind - hope so. Hey - maybe some of Yours could take over some of Ours! then ... ..


Cheers,

Ashton

PS - if I need to add (?) since we are an elite band hereabouts: I'm not speaking for myself re the "techno changes" but re the vast majority of people who can't grok the simplest principles of how stuff works - increasingly. That gap won't get 'better' for an increasing % of the entire population, especially if education does not soon reverse course (in at least This country).

But I do know how things work - in the end 'things' work via physics rules. People do not. Ordinary people have to live in some "here" also. And we may not require that they learn to compile Linux kernels next - to eat. (Dunno if daily spreadsheets are a 'better way' to spend time than say, shoveling cow manure? - but that's another thread)

If we are going to morph towards a world wherein 'menial tasks' are given the connotation implicit in your 'history': that implies also that it shall continue to be acceptable that persons unable to grok techno - may be paid below base-level subsistence, and be left well out of contention for - participation in this so-called 'advancing consciousness'. Bad plan that, IMO. And I think that 'bad plan' IS the plan I see in progress.

A.

Of course it is. Those who want to 'conserve the status quo' - have never succeeded. But we know calculus: and d(dx/dt) describes not change but acceleration. It is as mindless to accept that:

Anything which Might be done next is OK - as the reverse.

I do see where 'encapsulated communications' Might lead, at least I believe I see +s AND -s. Don't you? We could try anticipating both, not just hoping for the +s. Because every choice works like that.

I don't 'predict' the asymptote mentiond - but I know too many people who would not have missed its obvious presence in the 'possibilities' - to imagine I'm the first to see it there! (Or the last)

Change is now occurring at evidently in-human speed, driven largest of all by dreams of personal profit by a very small % of the tenants.(well into obscene levels - if it can be gotten away with. No Limit to greed, experienced as obsession). At the very least: such tawdry motivation deprives 'us all' of more viable options: that's the cost I see as simplest to notice.

As a planet - we *have* no plan for what to do with multitudes of persons following their own growth curve -- who won't understand the above shorthand. These need to have valid work for a sane existence. Just like us smart (and fortunate = lucky) ones are able to scrounge up - so far... Why? - 'cause they won't just stand around watching the Chosen Ones drive into their gated enclaves.. after a certain critical mass of dissension occurs.

Sorry again but.. "there there, this is just normal er 'progress'" - is a proposition I oppose entirely. Not much is 'normal' about the just-ended Century of Wars.. and this opening of the next, with the national and international rules of the last, (all overlaid with ancient and some deadly superstitions too)

ie we aren't *required* to be stupid, next. Y'know?



Ashton

(Hey... I watched the beginning of the 'nuc. industry' from scratch - remember, "electricity too cheap to bother metering" ? ETC. And I was *interested* in the details, so I learned them. I have heard Lots of fanciful musings of Insanely-great Ideas - and noted what actually occurred.) I noticed - but I don't 'worry'. That would be silly!