I give you this to consider: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYAcLudBbhg
![]() I give you this to consider: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYAcLudBbhg |
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![]() Conclusion first: clearly the Activist-Islamites fail the Psychopath Test; should not this fact--evident by inspection--supersede the drudgery of epistemological parsing and all that repetitive neuronal drudgery? Each of such confrontations seems to underscore the meta-view: Communication has failed, does so repeatedly ... each's cranium becomes its own opaque fish-bowl, a soundproof one. I'm about through kibitzing on such Missions Impossible. (Though each time there is the nearly-suffocated Hope that ... some PAIR shall go beyond the word-salads!.. gotta Resist.. that.) [Just heard: the French killed-off the GF of the three or so runamucks; further confirmation of futility?] A sub-set of (the conventional 'a-personification-of-a-creature-like-us' "God") == the Muslim debate. The good-ethical-philosophical Muslim here countering Hitchin is prolix but succeeds-not IMO to make the unstated-case that, all the atrocities snarkily but accurately disemboweled by Hitchens: "kinda Aren't our best minds-at-work" (because Really..we ARE.. a religion of peace™) So.. worship His Face and kill those who don't? (We all are so inundated with cant, that most can't get Kant, even) or at very least, order our minds decently with the priorities that must underlie Reason (so sweet and undefinable.) I guess I think that there's no (real) contest here re. whether the mondo-Authoritarian kultur derived from the Quran is remotely sane: that man-transcribed tome which 'regulates' every facet of your life, from diet to sex to clothing to … thus an easy-win even with a lesser wordsmith than Hitchins. Authority for Authority's sake? I submit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg7p1BjP2dA Sam Harris -vs- William Lane Craig He's more concise than Hitchins, (a higher-level of snark, too?), and vastly more lucid than Tariq Ramadan (kindly and almost-erudite as he is..) Samples: "Worst possible Universe": maximum of pain== creature suffers as much as it can for as long as it can: defines BAD (GOOD==obv. opposite) Nice touch, epistemology somewhat laterally-arabesqued.. by a more practical nearer-pellucid model for creation of an 'Objective' morality, if morality is to be at-all comprehended in a useful (to human-apes) way. "Well-being of *conscious* creatures" becomes the guiding principle amidst all scales of word-salad, sweet or vinaigrette. Ex. Taliban: one of the best places on Earth to watch women and infants die.. [avec ugly Stats] Throwing battery acid in faces of little girls trying to learn how to read… (fill in n- more) (He seems to grok Cantor's non-denumerable infinities--some larger than others, in verbal terms, maybe the essence of his brevity with clarity ?) Ex: "It's really possible to 'value' things that would make you deeply miserable in this life." Craig loses/flat-FAIL in violating the Prime Directive: [The Absolute is without attributes] via his anthropocentric description of God's "character" (..as the inventor of values and morality and well.. just.. whatcha got?) Ex: "moral ontology confused with moral semantics" (?) Moi says, moral grounded in God==YAN 'ontological proof-of-God' dirt-snake circle-jerk.. IMO Harris cleans his clock with some stats, the sources for believing in 'Hell' (and all Authoritarian 'Morality') by noting absurdities which need no reductio. More Ex: "This is how you play tennis without the net!" … It is not only tiresome when intelligent people speak this way: it is morally reprehensible … the perfection of Narcissism: when God Loves Me... A religion of human sacrifice." (and many Etc.) Love. It. Not merely a hoot, but a concise rebuttal for every sanctimonious [God-loves-*you* piece of "the Good News" fabric of every evangel since the mythical Satan-dummy.] Except: this total-Non-communication just goes on.. and on.. like a brick wall. Few ever examine a moment (which one stays-in, excluding all else) for a quick assessment of one's raison d'etre--within the daily Play.) Just as every Sage has stated, some more cleverly than others. :-/ Verily I say unto thee (if ya wanna use Words at all?) FIRST came The [Referent] … thence came the words--all loosed into the maya aka World of Opposites aka the daily dream-state (for our consternation and amusement.) Awomen |
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![]() A South African child came down with an illness, cryptococcal meningitis, and all of his voluntary muscle control eventually shut down. NPR: [...] (Emphasis added.) Fascinating stuff. I remember as a kid wondering (probably based on some popular novel title or something) what it would be like to be in a state like that. I agree that there must be a strong element of psychopathy in too many of these murderers who use religion as an excuse. All of us have models of our universe inside our heads. They're all a little different, but none of them are perfect matches to "real reality". People who can convince themselves that political cartoons are an acceptable reason for machine-gunning their fellow species-mates are broken and need to be helped to rejoin something approaching reality. I wouldn't be surprised if, within 20 years or so, there are reasonably good treatments for psychoses like these. The question is, who is going to decide what is "normal"...? Cheers, Scott. |
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![]() perhaps when pondering what the worst? worst-enough Hell might be like. Then there's Helen Keller, surely one of the most (H)eroic persons ever, due, indispensably to her dedicated and intelligent companion. Maybe a pill shall happen which reverses psychopathy some. day. Meanwhile, this tiny band of utter-Incorrigibles may well ignite a religio-/politico-/worldwide Spasm-war (the original RAND-kind? or a facsimile.) When the very concept of shame has been deadened ... the subconscious random thoughts within every ~normal homo-sap exhibits quite well to us just how dangerous even One Conscience-free aka Hitler can be. No need for The Sky Has Fallen.. have we not always lived in parlous Times? (As Command and Control documented to a fare-thee-well): only Luck is responsible for the remarkable Fact: that no nuke has yet been triggered accidentally, within those very many close-calls. We shall have to hope that at least this level of dumb-Luck sustains the planetary House of Cards well beyond any Hope of the rational-odds sort, eh? |
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![]() My very good friend in NC set up their local RR (Recovering From Religion) group. Very low attendance. For the true believer, if he even ponders for a nanosecond that he might be wrong then he is sending himself into his own hell. Couple that with the fear that drives governments, media, and individuals that gives rise to such things as the White House contacting a loon to encourage him to not destroy a religious text and you have an environment in which this evil religion can grow and prosper. As well-known Atheist Richard Dawkins has said, by comparison Christianity is benign (note: this is not to say that it doesn't contain as much nonsense as Islam). If enlightened societies are going to survive, Islam must be relegated to the history books. It is time, I think, to state and state clearly, "Islam has no place in Western Democracies." Call a spade, a spade iow. In this country (the US) and perhaps others, Islam is nothing more than a euphemism for treason. There is simply no redeeming virtue to Islam and it will destroy us. But, only if we let it. Examples of how our deference to Islam has eaten away at our very core are plentiful. We have Islamists to thank for the shredding of Amendments 1, 4 and 5. We have them to thank for the National Security State, the USA PATRIOT Act, mass murders, and so on. It's well past time to call Islam what it is: a violent cult. In this country, mosques should be treated no differently than Waco, TX. |
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![]() -- Drew |
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![]() My point is that a cult is a cult is a cult. The government cannot possibly defend treating one cult - like the one in Waco, differently from the Islamic cult. |
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![]() What would we do with Keith Ellison and Andre' Carson? What would we do with Dave Chappelle? Cheers, Scott. |
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![]() If those guys are decent human beings (and I've no reason to doubt that) then they aren't really Muslims in the first place. Much as sane Christians aren't really Christians. I mean, nobody actually believes a nice, young Jewish boy dead for over 2,000 years can really "save" them. I couldn't swallow that at age 9, and I'm confident no one really swallows that today. They're just afraid to say so. Pull out one of the more onerous stories in the New Testament and ask today's sane Christian if s/he actually believes the story. They'll say, "Well, we don't believe that anymore." Well, then man up and admit you know it's all a fairy tale. Edit: I just realized I didn't answer your question. If it's a religion, it's a cult. |
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![]() The other half is, now what do we do with them? You're saying religions are cults, so we should treat religions the same way we treat cults. Got it. Now how should we treat cults? -- Drew |
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![]() Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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![]() More here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY8fjFKAC5k IOW, repeal that tiny portion of Amendment 1 that still stands. Strip them of their tax-exemptions, remove their idiotic texts from all schools, and so on. |
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![]() Readers Digest: [...] (Emphasis added.) Hitch didn't want any ideas censored. Taxing religion is something lots of us could get behind, though. FWIW. Cheers, Scott. |
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![]() But if we allow Islam (and more broadly any of the medieval superstitious religions of fear) to dictate what can and cannot be said, we are, de facto, allowing the "free exercise" clause trump "the freedom of speech" clause. Thus, the first amendment is lost in any case. With religion, and in particular Islam, it's time to choose our poison. |
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![]() Is this not the circle-jerk which spins on frictionless bearings? (so favored in all elementary physics test problems.) The God-debate surely er, Christ-ened the accretion of IWE, in those bucolic years before the Shogunate's War on All Wisdom (and most just-plain Goodness.) But it keeps coming baaaack. It's not about cerebral induction/deduction. NPR today: an OCD-guy on Fresh Air, wrote book re his own obsessive compulsion disorder, has studied same (as well as the studiers.) At geek-level etc. He be as 'rational' as my own nit-pickery levels can discern. Has made some progress, but.. it lurks still. Not saying these afflicted are equivalent to the religious impetus, but we are still in infancy about brain-mapping and in even worse ignorance re consciousness, (IMO the #1 unanswerable riddle, via any mere logic.) Further, there are esoteric levels where most religios never venture (look at all the Christians who never read enough Bible to See the effects of homo-sap tinkering, invention and the n Contradictions as resulted.) These care-not about such Referents as [The Absolute] nor would these comprehend (nor care to try) what it means to say, The Absolute is without attributes (as means: you could not possibly imagine What such an Overview would entail.) Forget yer anthropomorphic, gendered==hoary-old-Men. But you Can postulate the existence of [Absolute], without wishful thinking or projection: "IT" was present "before!" T=0, in that: our local cosmology; equally so in the Steady-state-eternal previous model. That there is mathematics (all those processes) does not follow from any random thought-events: 'Laws' are 'Legislated'. We only discover them: whence came the Legislator(s)? So the millions are all un-read amateurs (or worse: stuck in childhood) at the religio trade: just running on early-rote inculcation, which was quite enough. At age 5. Only they stayed there. And will. (The real 'Arrested Development'? near species-wide), though the silliest are closing shop. Crap shoot. (To me the longest running Cosmic-joke remains our total inability to comprehend consciousness: its origins, its How?s let alone Why?s), nor can we see Information Theory explain the presence of 'thought-bits?' without which: there would be nothing to communicate. (Let alone: how/why mathematics came to create/or-reveal itself.) Those are just a few.. of the unKnowable Questions which persist, will do so unless/until consciousness-itself creates that New-level which AE referred to in, Problems created at one level of thinking ... ... That was a metaphysical statement, by definition. AE's thoughts on 'god' were all worth parsing, I thought. He certainly eschewed the im-person-ation shtick. We grok the physics of the material aspects of this goldfish bowl, each principle being testable. As to the realm of the conscious mind, the Reality of (or not) of thought-creation and all the rest: those demand many more Answers than the Big Bang brings to the table. We who 'do Science' fall into an easy conceit, in believing (at all levels of sci. education) that, our efforts are necessary of pursuit (for being incomplete) and: its method is all ye need to know to finally get a glimpse of Reality. That view almost-defines 'Western culture', no? Ergo: religiosity shall never go away; it cannot be slain via rules of the physical universe, just as [Reality] utterly escapes representation--thus far--in the mental realms: as are also "in Existence: in any full-Cosmology" worth trying to map. (And the impulse Shouldn't disappear.. at least not to any who crave to get near as possible to Truthiness ABOUT that "complete-Cosmos.") I wot. Why settle for the piker's version of the Game, just because it's popular because so easy. My own proof-of-concept derives from Cosmic Humor: were there no such thing (?) I should have to invent it ... as did The Bard ... or begin sacrificing something.. to Something. ie I cannot live with this *shame © Shogun * of our deliberate, infantile choosing of static-ignorance, worship-because-ƒeare (Dying or the other hobgoblins.) Carrion ;^> |
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![]() There *are* people who definitely and passionately believe a nice Jewish boy who died 2000 years ago (note the change of tense, or you'll get arguments from them) can "save" them. Millions of them. Likewise, there are millions of people convinced that the words written down that claim to be from The Prophet are divine truth and not to be argued with. Wade. Just Add Story http://justaddstory.wordpress.com/ |
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![]() I cannot accept that anyone is that gullible. If what you're saying is true, then all that is left to do is cheer for an oncoming comet. A big one. With proper aim at this little insignificant planet orbiting and even less significant yellow dwarf. |
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![]() Once, people couldn't accept that the earth wasn't the center of the universe, despite mountains of evidence. Some people can't accept that other races are fully human, despite mountains of evidence. Some people can't accept that man's activities affect climate, despite mountains of evidence. You can't accept that people actually believe the tenets of their religion ... -- Drew |
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![]() I'm not saying there's evidence in support of their beliefs. I'm saying there's evidence that they believe it. You've stated clearly you "don't accept" that they actually believe it. * They say they believe it. * They take actions that can only be explained by the fact they believe it. * They're willing to kill or die to defend it. This isn't about their faith, it's about yours. You refuse the evidence in front of you because it doesn't fit with your worldview. You can't engage rationally with a reality you deny. -- Drew |
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![]() Protesting that they believe it and/or taking actions to suggest they believe it could be driven by fear. Religions are great at instilling fear. |
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![]() Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. |
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![]() did a hot blonde xian turn you down in your misspent yout? You can believe anything you want, its fine with me as long as you stay out of my wallet and bedroom. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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![]() And while there is plenty-o-support for violence in the Xian bibbles, most of them don't actually act upon it. |
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![]() Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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![]() We have to make it clear that—there should be no confusion—Islamophobia is the racism, is the—but it’s only as citizens, it’s only in the critical debate, it’s only with all the forces and all the trends within our societies that are against any type of racism, that we are going to resist and reform the minds and the hearts of our fellow citizens. And it could never be accepted, never be supported, such actions that are now instrumentalizing some of the frustrations that we have in the West as to, you know, equal citizenship and racism, and using this to support what is in fact not acceptable and has to be condemned. http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/7/leading_muslim_scholar_tariq_ramadan_attack Let me understand this. If I criticize Islam, I am a racist Islamophobe. And because of that, these poor, downtrodden Muslims are resorting to unacceptable means of "instrumentalizing some of the frustrations that we[they] have in the West." If we'd only be kinder to these fascists, they'd behave for us. That about it? It cannot be "racism" to have deep hatred of Islam for the simple reason that religion != race. You can change your religion, but, ... oh, that's right, if you are a Muslim you can't, else you'll be killed. Yes, he's right. What an enlightened group of fucking people. Why wouldn't we want to sit down and discuss with them any number of topics? |
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![]() Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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![]() Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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![]() and maybe Harris -vs- Craig (?)--and the number of nested conditional-clauses within every sentence, tip-toeing around the Islam predicament du jou--aren't we left with: Teachers of Islam Fix-it, in their curriculum, in clear direct language and act to curb their own extremist killers OR !=Muslims everywhere are apt to act in the manner reliably chosen in similar clusterfucks, after all debates fail. Of course too, Islam is not alone in the vast r e s t r a i n t of Robed-leaders in most religions, ever to expel? or otherwise punish significantly: their homicidal %small. But Techno has rendered that %small of THIS religion universally active and in increasingly bestial ways. Acts which directly attack all the basic concepts of any social order (including: attacks within and on, their own culture, of the acid in child's face level.) On far less provocation than these-all, in recent years: n other States have gone to war with others. Now, it is not State -vs-State, but a sufficient %Islamics-vs-Every-State (as promulgated in their very-own Screed, with human-inscribed Words attributed to [The Only God evah! worth killing everyone-else Over.] (Nor is there even an escape-clause for those sect-members who'd like to flee Islam: Death seems #1 through #100 of the top bestial punishments for quite more than apostasy. Catch 22) W.T.F. do *you* think ... is Next? Turned on KDFC: Dickie Wagner playing. From the Götterdammerung. Coincidence? ..depends upon one's view of Cosmic Humor, I guess. Wagner really knows how to 'play a slapstick-Act off the stage', though: swell to ƒƒƒƒ I think I'm hearing prescient echoes for that Next.. more C. Humor? the ancient, now Corporate sects originated in the caves we are possibly loping towards. |
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![]() There is mountains of evidence that there are billions of people who believe in their religious convictions. The Hajj. The Catholic Church. Westboro Baptists. Wade. Just Add Story http://justaddstory.wordpress.com/ |
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![]() That's what came to my mind watching that spiel. 90% of folks just go along with what's being said. Works with 18 y/olds trained to be soldiers and therefore killers on command. It's the nature of humans, not only Muslims. Being ignorant does make one more susceptible. Be illiterate and you're like putty to be shaped. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov |
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![]() ...by Det Islamske Nettverk.("Det Islamske Nettverk" = "The Islamic Network" in Norwegian (and possibly Danish).) -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.) |