Pointing to Egypt's al-Sisi as a good guy is a stretch...

Post #397,921 by Another Scott 1/8/15 8:24:29 PM Reply	Pointing to Egypt's al-Sisi as a good guy is a stretch... http://www.juancole.com/2014/12/thermidor-counter-revolution.html Despite al-Sisi’s clampdown, for many Egyptians he remains a popular leader, offering protection and stability where previously there had been only insecurity and chaos. And while security problems across Egypt remain serious – highlighted by a general reluctance among women to leave the house on their own – al-Sisi’s regime is still broadly seen as a solution to the country’s big problems, not a problem in itself. The price of security But that doesn’t mean all is well. Since gaining power after the July 2013 coup d’etat, al-Sisi has sought to consolidate his rule by whatever means necessary – and the means he has chosen are starting to deepen domestic and international unease. The government has dialled up its authoritarianism and passed various new laws that restrict Egyptians’ human rights. The new constitution, devoted to a “war against terrorism”, defines terrorism as an “act” that might obstruct the work of public officials, embassies or institutions and therefore includes anyone who joins peaceful protests or takes part in a strike. Prison sentences of up to ten years can be given to anyone who is part of a group that “harms national unity or social peace”. As a consequence, an estimated 41,163 Egyptians were arrested in the period between July 3, 2013 and May 15, 2014, including 36,478 detained during political events and a further 3,048 arrested as members of the Muslim Brotherhood. These numbers are unmatched in Egyptian history, and they show just how restricted and security-minded Egypt’s politics have become. Together with the re-issuing of Mubarak’s much criticised State of Emergency Law and of the Assembly Law, which gives the security forces the right to forcibly disperse any public meeting of more than ten people, this is another clear sign of a regime trying to retain power by utterly dominating the political sphere. Of course, the Daily Caller is Tucker Carlson's rag, and the authors are part of the Simon Wiesenthal Center - which opposed the construction of the Ground Zero Mosque (which wasn't at Ground Zero and wasn't a Mosque). Many Zionists like al-Sisi because democracy is messy, and Israel's government wants stability on its borders above almost anything... :-/ My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #397,922 by boxley 1/8/15 8:29:12 PM Reply	So if Nixon told Billy Graham to tone down anti gay rhetoric, it would be a bad thing? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #397,924 by Another Scott 1/8/15 8:38:34 PM Reply	So, if Nixon locked up all the Democratic leaders and told them to be nice...
Post #397,927 by boxley 1/8/15 9:25:35 PM Reply	So if Clinton locked up all the repos leaders and told them to be nice would he have still been impeached? Did you have a point because your simile didnt work. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #397,936 by Another Scott 1/8/15 10:57:26 PM Reply	al-Sisi locked up his opponents then told them to play nice. HTH.
Post #397,937 by boxley 1/8/15 11:01:41 PM Reply	ah so Sisi is a bad guy, people who like jews published his statement on Islam so what he said is to be utterly disregarded because it was Sisi who said it. Somehow that doesn't sound right. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #397,938 by Another Scott 1/8/15 11:20:03 PM Reply	No. That's not my view. In brief: 1) I don't think the DailyCaller is a site worth reading. 2) I don't think that organizations that are strong public advocates for Zionist policies, who have (specifically) helped demonize Muslims in the US, have anything useful to say about the way Muslims should think and behave. 3) I don't think that al-Sisi's statements about the way Muslim people should behave should be taken at face value. I'm sure Genghis Khan was nice to his dogs, and liked beautiful music, too... :-/ There are much better examples of Muslims condemning "Islamic" terrorism than al-Sisi's statements. FWIW. YMMV. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #397,940 by boxley 1/8/15 11:40:52 PM Reply	I will address 3, 1&2 are not part of Islam 3) I don't think that al-Sisi's statements about the way Muslim people should behave should be taken at face value. I'm sure Genghis Khan was nice to his dogs, and liked beautiful music, too... :-/ He is their defacto leader regardless of how he got there until he is replaced. The country he leads is regarded by a wide swath of Sunni Islam to be the heart of the religion as well as one of the more populated. His funding funds the Islamic learning institutions. His statements are regarded in that particular area are as forceful to the Sunni as the Qatar Leadership is to the takfari branch of the Sunni. He is speaking as a leader of his stewardship. Hopefully his words are heeded. He is a practicing Muslim regardless of his political duties. As one of the leaders of the Pan Arab states his words are respected although his politics may not be. The statement is one that needs leaders in the area to get behind with eminent common sense. Churchill was the leader who ordered wmd's to be used in Iraq, gassing the Iraqi folk. Not a nice man but he was sorta useful in 1940's as well as Stalin another fine upstanding example of "was nice to his dogs, and liked beautiful music, too... :-/" Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #397,941 by Another Scott 1/9/15 12:18:53 AM Reply	That's fine as far as it goes. Egypt has been ruled by thinly veiled generals since Nasser's day. Except when the Brotherhood was briefly in charge. IIRC, one of the reasons why things fell apart when the Brotherhood ruled is that the Army was working behind the scenes to strangle the economy. Pointing to al-Sisi as an important player is certainly true. However, it's important to remember all the baggage he brings with him. It's easy for a general to point at religious leaders and say "look - you have to fix this problem" when a lot of Egypt's (and Arab Muslims') problems are the direct result of the history of military rule there. The Brotherhood didn't appear out of nowhere. They were (at least in part) a reaction to military rule in Egypt. The Brotherhood was the incubator of al Qaeda and lots of other nasty groups. Isn't it a bit disconcerting to you that the first few dozen hits in a Google search for "al sisi muslim leaders peace" (without the quotes) is mainly links to RWNJ sites like DailyCaller and PJMedia?? "A Titan for Freedom!!" "Does al-Sisi Deserve the Nobel Peace Prize??" Why not pick a story from al Arabiya instead? Gotta run. Cheers, Scott.
Post #397,942 by boxley 1/9/15 12:22:22 AM Reply	well since I invoked Godwin my last post :-) besides Obama has a nobel why not sisi? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #397,945 by pwhysall 1/9/15 3:17:16 AM Reply	How do you "invoke" Godwin's Law? Answer: you don't. It's an observation, nothing more. /pedant
Post #397,950 by drook 1/9/15 7:41:47 AM Reply	"Pedant" is just a nice word grammar Nazis use to describe themselves -- Drew
Post #397,952 by malraux 1/9/15 8:35:37 AM Reply	I see what you did there... Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #397,947 by Ashton 1/9/15 6:49:27 AM Reply	Think you're missing the salient point. Not important that he is another in a long series of questionable accessions in a State with a political process quite as inimical to basic principles of "democratic rule" as our own, or even how poorly he handles the Power. He is a credentialed Muslim. No Infidel could suggest that Imams, their madrassas cease teaching that Jihad is acceptable behavior on this planet. It may well be that no one can cause these to cease their incitements to the young, especially the paupers with no prospects: except tp escape from here to the fantasy-world. The Very Idea! that: anyone alive--Not a Muslim--is an Infidel who may be assassinated (and earn praise for the act!) means that Islam is Exceptional to the rules of civilized other societies: who also outnumber and out-gun them. (No wonder the West's fears of Iran + Bomb, though we dare not say: because you will Use it). I remain mystified as to Why every literate Muslim cannot see the implications of being labeled an Infidel who may be killed and his murderer rewarded. This is not absence of empathy; it's absence of a functioning mind or conscience or both. Finally one of Theirs has here tried to tell them the obvious; Muslims merely need to look at the collateral damage of all our wars to determine what we are capable of, and all know that we have the nukes to proceed. Ergo, personally, I don't care if al-Sisi is as rapacious as the Koch brothers, the entire US Financial tribe or all those now-wealthy U.S. 'Representatives': he has here attempted to educate the people who have created a welcoming environment for assassins. Barbarian is the universal epithet for that mind-set. I see no way out of a permanently intransigent Islam, except what always we do. (And then we shall join them in perpitude: for a toss-up whether weather does us in before? we start with nukes and the Pakistan-supplied retaliations.) I'm convinced: that the species IS that crazy, especially when one side has all the destructive power just sitting around, waiting to justify the n $Ts it cost over the last 70 years. One more mini-Towers episode or less--is all the primer it needs. Don't you Get that? [But will a %significant of Imams + followers Get that?] May the combination of fallout from this atrocity AND al-Sisi's comments prove synergistic [if any key Imam even heard of it..] Carrion, Homo-Seppuku.
Post #397,955 by Another Scott 1/9/15 12:40:35 PM Reply	Maybe. On the other hand, ... Our understanding of such relations between civilizations stems from the basic principles of Islam, that considers belief in former Divine Messages as a prerequisite for sound faith in Islam.... The Holy Qur'an also confirms that religion can never serve as grounds for clash by saying, ``There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error.'' This also shows that relationships among civilizations and nations are one of dialogue rather than one of conflict, as shown by the following verses, ``O mankind Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another.'' And, ``Argue ye not [with the People of the Scripture] except in the better ways.'' Thus, from a proper Islamic perspective, Muslims' belief in the universality of Islam does not imply the exclusive singularity of Islamic civilization in the world nor its supremacy over other civilizations. It rather means interaction with these civilizations and emphasis that plurality of civilizations and diversity of cultures are the normal state of affairs. This Islamic concept of universality is based on the fact that plurality, diversity, and variance are the rule and the law and that interaction with other civilizations is the proper median position between isolation and subordination. The experience of history confirms this vision that we much cherish, in identifying relations between civilizations. The Arab Islamic civilization rose not to supersede, but rather to complement and advance oriental heritage. - President Hosni Mubarak, President of Egypt, November 2, 2001 - Madrid, Spain - http://www.schillerinstitute.org/dialogue_cultures/mubarak_11_01.html Platitudes from Egyptian dictators are easy. I don't see much benefit in joining people on the outside that I disagree with on most issues (i.e. the RWNJs) in applauding their wisdom and foresight and .... Al-Sisi and the DailyCaller aren't my compatriots. But, maybe I am missing the point. Oh well. FWIW. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #397,957 by Ashton 1/9/15 1:53:35 PM 1/9/15 6:27:15 PM Reply	No, I share that POV (also too..) Wise words from both.. but we see that 13+ years later: there's ISIS and a new crop of despairing youn'uns whose ripeness for a fantasy escape transcends even their will to live. Hosni got ejected.. to be replaced with ... ... It may be that, even if al-Sisi's more contemporary Wake-Up shall fall on premeditatedly deaf-ears too. No surprise there. But the focus on TEACHING is a lot more specific than the POV of Mubarak, and even there, al-S. doesnt Say This this simply, either. What I see is that the MMO is There: awaitng only the last "Opportunity" to self-justify something like a pogrom, especially if (everyone's! Inner-nazi becomes stoked by escalating ISIS atrocities plus further success, compounded by planetary and Econ clusterfucks throughout the Rich slabs of land. If Islam hews to Shrub-grade Stubbornness (about its emphases on the (inner-Nazi passages in that Quran) for the foreseeable? I have no doubt that there is enough corruption to go around and our own Western 'Swansee' secret confab for the demonstration of superior Power ... remains quite within that deck of failed-thus-far diplomatic cards. (The whole techno-revolution is about speeding-up all Normal processes, as if for 'convenience' and higher profits) via Corporations eating the profits of that ever-rising efficiency curve: The casualty is, IMO the loss of patience on all fronts: for those s l o w processes of (civilizing even 'our Own'. I see a huge crap-shoot in the offing. Hope I'm Rilly-wrong! about that Solution as opens up a new Tier in The Inferno, never envisaged by Dante :-/ We Begin--at Best--by greatly reducing Our nukes as the final carrot re. Iran.. also de-FUZING of India's/Paki's hysterical hair triggers: all at Once. If any Statesmen still exist anywhere. You can't force-ration these planet-killers for everyone-but-Yourself. That's Basic Reptile-brain Fact, I wot. :-) :-/ == crap. shoot. Danger + Opportunity etc. Ed: oTyp Edited by Ashton Jan. 9, 2015, 06:27:15 PM EST Expand All History
Post #397,934 by Ashton 1/8/15 10:50:09 PM Reply	He doesn't get a free pass just because he said something utterly-Sane, once but all things considered: he cannot hence be called an Ignorant self-serving Despot: just an ordinary scheming-one (nor get off light in some future trial by a plea, "I didn't realize that ... X was Wrong!") It's the old Hottentot and (the whatever-'civilized' stand-in) gig. As to ISIS and Paris defectives: laws mean nothing to someone who has daily folksy conversations with their One-True $Deity about the Goodness of sociopathy. So what do we do with those, on an already crowded space-ship? (Think religiocide and you Join Them.)

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