Post #385,275
1/14/14 8:08:08 PM
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muscle cars and muddle cars
In terms of sheer styling, this is where Ford ought to have gone for the half-century reinvention of the Mustang:
http://autos.yahoo.c...00-194128946.html
I was indifferent to the auto culture growing up in Los Angeles in the fifties and sixties, but I well remember older teens tinkering with and customizing their American muscle cars (and "Ford" and "Chevy" aficionados were as dismissive of their rivals as were the various operating system partisans a generation later) with considerable effort and pride. The notion of, say, a Japanese* car would have been greeted with mingled incredulity and contempt.
cordially,
*I was working at a car wash on Reseda Boulevard in LA in the early 1970s, having been briefly expelled from college, and I remember my disbelief the first time an early Honda pulled in: tiny, flimsy, with tires the size of dinner plates. Throughout the decade, of course, the Japanese would gain market share. US corporate mismanagement helped. Exhibit A, the Chevy Vega:
http://www.popularme...most-destroyed-gm
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Post #385,281
1/14/14 10:45:09 PM
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*Fiat Lux Production; Ad-purveyors: peruse/weep lots.
WOWeee !!! Now there's a storyboard combining 1) all the Walter Mitty fantasies of every Bond-o-phile 2) the F=MAaaa fantasies of every (medium-build physiqued) Muscled Car luster-after.
So then.. Who was 'the cop'? Who was the first driver? WHO was the voluptuous-Siren hot-car-Tamer in short-short skirt??
There's Number 3) in the mix: Sex Sells.
(As they leave us hanging.. on The Plot ... sequel coming soon to a multiplex Near You. Bastards!)
* Same name as on that coffee-table book re UCB/Ansel on-camera. More synchronicity--but just for me.)
The Vega article nicely dissects the ingredients of "Looks good! but turns out it Sucks" ... yeah, save a few $$ on flimsy sheet-metal/a few pennies more on protective coatings..
Create a pariah. Get paid in 8 figures. Take self + no-shame off to that island, to nurse barely-dented ego.
What's in a name? (Say, 'Nova') as regards intangibles like Rep ... also facing the Suits-in-Command:
The Nova had a particularly rough time in Central/South America sales, simply because its name: 'Nova' spoken as, "No. Va". means exactly: "Doesn't go."
Nice catch(es).
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Post #385,294
1/15/14 9:54:41 AM
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What's in a name? Less than you'd think
The Chevy "Nova" chestnut is debunked here with considerable energy and thoroughness by our good friends at snopes.com:
http://www.snopes.co...misxlate/nova.asp
cordially,
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Post #385,298
1/15/14 10:19:37 AM
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well to be pedantic no marcha means the starter is gone
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
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Post #385,301
1/15/14 10:42:11 AM
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Entertaining Snopes linky! Thanks.
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Post #385,307
1/15/14 12:02:16 PM
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Over here they've gone for "just plain stupid"
Volkswagen up!
Vauxhall Mokka
Renault Wind
Nissan Leaf
If the idiocracy of the up! is too much, Seat will sell you the same car in the guise of the Seat Mii.
Which is far better, obv.
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Post #385,308
1/15/14 12:15:23 PM
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Renault is ripping off the idea of VW Sirocco.
A particular kind of wind.
Also, Nissan Leaf is here too.
Alex
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Post #385,310
1/15/14 1:06:19 PM
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Isn't that flirting with a lawsuit from Nintendo?
--
Drew
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Post #385,316
1/15/14 1:55:58 PM
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Wii are not amused.
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Post #385,322
1/15/14 5:08:18 PM
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('Twas an unintendo-Nintendo; comprendo?)
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Post #385,321
1/15/14 4:56:04 PM
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It was..(whatever year) and, Then as Now:
Perception is All.
[Dons, Here's the 5£ Argument you paid for-hat]
Snopes is being a bit pecksniffish to dismiss entirely the meme
--how do you count? "Didn't buy because why would I buy from a Mfg. this obtuse?"
--as to micro-accént-disassembly: is Snopes unaware that ANY word which (contains 2 or more sub-words) is grist for being examined for Ha-Ha's?
This is not just a Murican affliction (I more than wot, from some experience of Español-punsterism)
ALL play-with-words (except Repos, who merely seek to incorporate -Evil- within ordinary common ones. Stunted imaginations correlate with one-track-brains.)
Snopes' worthiest 'correction' I accept: that in-fact Chevy Didn't 'measure' any decline in sales because of this meme.
They could not count the no-shows, actually/obviously. I don't really care though, if the original assertion has less than sterling-truthiness:
It was still A Hoot (for those of us who will stoop to punniness long after Age 10.)
So.. it's a Win/Whine situation, eh?
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Post #385,323
1/15/14 5:20:56 PM
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Not very subtle rip-off
--
Drew
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Post #385,331
1/15/14 7:00:28 PM
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Car companies steal profiles all the time.
The resemblance is extremely close, as you note, but they aren't simply customizing '70 Mustangs. http://www.equus-aut...chassis-body.html
It's a good looking car, though the front looks too much like a 'Cuda for my taste.
And if I had that much money to waste on a car, I'd get something different.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #385,339
1/15/14 9:21:56 PM
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Confess..
You'd at least test drive a Veyron!
..the first Diesel-edition, natch :-0
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Post #385,343
1/15/14 9:47:57 PM
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Maybe.
;-)
There might be none left by then...
http://www.topgear.c...etroit-2014-01-15
So what's the brief for the next Veyron? Forget McLaren, Porsche and Ferrari, says Dr Schreiber. All the next Veyron has to worry about is... the current one. "It has to redefine the benchmarks," he states firmly, "and the benchmark today is still the current Veyron. We are already working on it."
Will the Veyron, like the McLaren, Porsche and Ferrari, utilise hybrid power in pursuit of ultimate speed?
"Maybe," smiles Dr Schreiber. "But it's too early to open the door and show you what we have planned. For now we have to keep the focus on the current Veyron, and help people to understand that this really is the last opportunity to get the car, which will have run for ten years from 2005-2015. Then we will close this chapter and open another one."
Dr Schreiber confirmed that just 43 of the Veyron's total 450-car production run remain up for grabs, including the remaining three of Bugatti's six-strong ÂLegends' series. "The 300 coupés have sold out. We announced we would only make 150 roadsters, and we only have 43 left. People are becoming increasingly conscious that their opportunity to buy a Veyron is running out..."
It's too much.
A Lotus 2-Eleven seems more interesting to me - http://en.wikipedia....ki/Lotus_2-Eleven
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #385,350
1/16/14 12:02:45 AM
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Bargain!
(Of course, getting Vuitton to make fitted-luggage for this Really-tricked-out Bug-eye-Sprite sized screamer might pose some problems.)
This formula also accords with my bias re bikes: Lighter is Better. You need less power/torque from the engine-now-'device-complex' and smaller tires,
thus--unsprung weight, and all which ensues.
It's bloody-amazing the options one could now wish-for [and expect to get delivered!] amidst all the 'energy-mixes' either already announced or,
sure to be driving entrepreneurs batshit-crazy.
Torque: (is all ye need to know);
what you Want is the unflappable curve of a steam-engine/ie its electric-motor analogue. Screw 'HP'--it is Aways about, can you reach tire-adhesion limits?
at-will/any 'speed' you're willing to pay for.
(Braking, ditto--with superb 'feel' of the micro-clues you Are on the edge.)
Suspension:
I'd like to see a marriage of the truly-innovative hydraulic suspension of my bevy of Citroëns, such that one can dial-in instantly:
a soft, Detroit-like but with-Handling lead-barge --> on to various degrees of balls-out hooning.
No experience yet of the eptness of various 'driver-assist' suspension + brakes + power-override gadgetry, but the ergonomics can only improve,
maybe to the point of doing an IOM 'tour'? with the car saving you from a variety of expectable errors.. (but never: All of such!)
Ah well, maybe a vertical arabesque--directly ^to^ the ~solar-powered multi-fan helicopter thing.
Have to find out what's happening lately to the hi-tech Carter-copter touted in these pages by ?? from Oz, eons back.
(to whom I sent many 'lectronic goodies, way-back.) 400 mph @ 50K altitude (!) was target.
http://www.flyingmag...00-mph-helicopter
IIRC he was insulted-away from here via a series of hyperbolic CRC nasty-posts. (Alas, those e-mails are on another HD.)
So then.. whither? in 3-D, shall our Want!s invade our What-If?s
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Post #385,358
1/16/14 8:08:35 AM
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Doug Marker
https://www.google.c...y.org+doug+marker
He was a character - lots of good stories and not afraid to bring out the hammer in an argument. ;-) It would be interesting to hear what he's been up to.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #385,399
1/16/14 9:05:02 PM
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Ah yess.. had the Doug.. Sample Blast-from-the Past:
http://forum.iwethey....iwt?postid=71636
!3 years ... and marlowe still has tons of company :-/
..with the same message as My Gramma, dead.. lo these many years
Broken record.
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Post #385,352
1/16/14 5:13:18 AM
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I would!
TopGear was pretty up-front in pointing out each car costs VW about three times what they sell it for.
And perhaps the most interesting thing was when James May drove one to its maximum speed, everything was still stable and smooth.
Wade.
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Post #385,361
1/16/14 8:25:38 AM
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Interestingly...
...they are not a good investment.
Yer average Veyron, bought for a million or so quid, is worth two thirds of that now, if you're lucky. A two year old one went for $700K at Barrett-Jackson a while back - that's worse depreciation than a shitty diesel econobox!
OTOH, if you bought a Ferrari Enzo or a McLaren F1, your money is safe.
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Post #385,383
1/16/14 4:19:02 PM
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I Love exponentials.. SOLD!!
Were that example/rate to continue.. I might be able to afford one.. probably just in time to use as my coffin, well ... urn;
(don't like polluting Earth with dead humans; they do enough damage while alive.)
My guess too is, that the mechanicals are likely bulletproof and that, other than F=MA traumas from inattention
(or just excess cocaine usage) if driven at sane speeds not That-far over the Ton, if you can afford the petrol for a jaunt.
WikiP says EPA town/road are 8, 14 (per US Gal) and at top speed: 3
Merde.. that base mileage isn't much worse than my '70 Buick Riviera: roaring up Berkeley hills could get that sucker down to 8 or 9.
http://en.wikipedia....s_and_performance
At $25K/set of 'tyres'--one must NOT hit curbs! or drive over newly-exploded glass cars.
(And you have to take the sucker to France, to have these skins properly applied (they do run-flat, though..)
On this poor-fucking-Planet today: a majority are living on ~~ $1/day.
And there are Veyrons: We Are the slickest/sickest doomed-kultur since ... ... there IS no comparo.
Moderation in pursuit of Excess!! Don't be fucking-silly..
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Post #385,393
1/16/14 6:07:05 PM
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Now that the Three Stooges have been summoned...
Ashton, if you have access to BBC America, you might want to catch a rerun of this one:
http://www.topgear.c...train-race-part-1
where they race each other from London to Edinburgh in a Jag XK120, a cousin of the Flying Scotsman and a Vincent Black Shadow.
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Post #385,397
1/16/14 7:04:51 PM
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:-) I think he's seen it.
http://forum.iwethey...iwt?postid=324610
It was fun seeing that episode on TV. Shame it wasn't close, at least part due to operator error.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #385,401
1/16/14 9:34:04 PM
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Site's being cranky today.. saw this a while back
Thanks for tip ... had I only saved my best Shadow--in a nitrogen filled bag. :-/
Noted in close-up the S/N of that somewhat diffidently maintained Shadow of S/N 85xx vintage + some tool mutilations {{oh the Pain!}}
(And he obviously had no idea of the ez-start drill: tickle the rear float-bowl; one push-through with compression release held
--THEN one more should light up at idle.) Mine always did.
Will try again anon--all I recall of that romp is: that the Shadow didn't win
--probably because he wasn't riding #s 8679 or 9334, it pleases me to believe ;^>
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Post #385,447
1/17/14 6:41:05 PM
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Hammond was definitely on the edge of his abilities.
And Clarkson was simply unsuited to all that hard work.
It was a race definitely more about the technology than who was going to finish first!
Wade.
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Post #385,451
1/17/14 7:11:25 PM
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Yah, saw it was a flashy puff-piece not a 'Race'.. pity.
Dunno about Hammond's rider skillz overall, but he wasn't togged for the weather--and as for so many others,
Using the BHP might not have been sane,
as in 'tffo'--too fast for owner, that (pre-Smileys!) addendum to many 'Offers for Sale' back in the day,
--in The Motorcycle and 'Motorcycling'? (forget that last: there were the Blue'un and the Green'un!)
Vrooom shall always be With-us.
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Post #385,453
1/17/14 7:30:29 PM
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And it had quirks he coudn't get on top of.
He even lampshaded this right at the start when he pointed out some of the controls were on opposite sides to modern motorcycles. And the reserve tank switch was such a rookie error - he mustn't be used to that, either.
Wade.
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Post #385,461
1/18/14 5:22:58 AM
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Heh..'wrong-side' by Japanese layout, only; there's a story:
(Now what WAS screwed up way-early were Indian (US) controls), including a backwards twist-grip!
that is: you 'closed the throttle' by turning hand CCW==towards-you! ... counter-intutive-you-bet.)
Maybe he meant (more likely) that shifting is via right foot. and rear-brake is on the left. The Japanese thought ever-so-"logic"-ally that:
both brakes (hand & foot) should be on same side, thus shifting was moved to left-side as they entered the world cycle markets.
Because Honda (+ Kawa) aced most other world mfgs' outputs by end of '60s--this became Std. And Bad:
[Under: Nothing is ever Simple]
What the Brits had Right (sans any 'kinesiology' tests of those days) was a phenom I mentioned here, once:
Seems that the brain handles more speedily the cross-wise pairing of RH + LF for braking (something which needs front-to-rear precisely-coordinated braking force)
The gear-changing side is immaterial per se, but obv. must be on right: for left foot braking.
This has to do, apparently with the brain-wiring at the nexus where motor-decisions are made and that network introduces a certain delay IF:
a right foot AND a right hand are given similar tasks (!)
Some boffins measured reaction times of the two conventions and the Brit. original--as on Vincent--was measurably quicker to respond to brain-commands.
Who'd a THUNK! eh?
(I know I Hated-it when I got my first Honda, a 305 cc twin; it felt-Wrong, not because I knew what these boffins deduced much later:
but I experienced the ..lag in accommodating smooth 'commands' (though never suspected.. there was a Right/Wrong way! to place braking controls.)
TMI to detail, but re Reserve gas: you had a tap on both sides of tank: either one could feed both carbs But it was recommended, for high speeds
--that both be opened. If he opened only one? He had a reserve on other side (one side 'saved' more petrol, however, etc.)
So given his other cycle experience--sounds as if he hopped on the Vincent from ... many Japanese-mode bikes, had no familiarity ride before beginning this 'race' etc.
Not reading brief manual re Reserve options. Sloppy form there.
(But these details pale into insignificance with today's transistorized factory-racers and beyond-human power-on-tap.)
After all, this was just a soap opera production, not the I.O.M.
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Post #385,454
1/17/14 7:49:53 PM
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With that bunch you never know...
They have a habit of playing up the sharp edges by pretending not to know what they just ran into.
Hammond is the only rider among the three, but going by the earlier episode where they were to run the length of Vietnam on two wheels, he's quite a bit better than he let on here.
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Post #385,459
1/18/14 1:09:04 AM
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The producer has a hand in it.
It is know that the producer has a hand in their challenges, possibly guiding results, probably encouraging pranks and certainly picking challenges tilted against the cars they've chosen. On the other hand, it is known that the Clarkson you see in the program is an over-the-top version of himself. Not so sure about the other two.
I still think Richard simply bit off more than he could chew with that race. He fell a long way behind when he forgot to switch the reserve tank off - if the film team had reminded him of that it would've been quite a lot closer.
Wade.
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Post #385,464
1/18/14 9:14:25 AM
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Yup.
One wonders if they purposefully picked days that had rain in the forecast for that episode... It seems like, a lot of the time, the destruction and so forth is just something they know they have to put in, so they do so. I mean, yeah, they have fun with it but it's so over-the-top and predictable these days.
In this case - http://en.wikipedia....orth#Authenticity
Authenticity[edit]
For various reasons, it was not possible to run a historically accurate recreation of how the race would have gone in 1949. Instead, according to Graeme Bunker, the race was "done just for fun and entertainment".[6] A major restriction was Tornado's maximum speed limit of 75 miles per hour (121 km/h), set as a condition of its current main line certification (although the A1 Trust was planning to have Tornado certified to a higher speed over time). The 'Flyers' of the 1950s would have gone on to speeds of 90 miles per hour (140 km/h) and beyond.[2] A further difficulty was due to water troughs having been removed from the rail network, meaning it was not possible to achieve the post war steam timings of 6 and a half hours.[6] According to Steam Railway magazine, if Tornado had been able to use troughs, the train would have won the race easily.[2] On the plus side for the car and bike, they had the speed advantage of not having to travel through towns and villages exactly as the old Great North Road would have, but instead benefitted from the use of modern bypasses, and the faster A1(M) sections of the A1, where it has been upgraded to motorway standards.[6] However, speed restrictions outside of built up areas were only introduced in Britain in 1965. So if this had been in 1949 neither the car or motorbike would have been subject to any speed restrictions for most of the journey.[citation needed]
The best thing about Top Gear is the cinematography, IMO. The rest is meh, depending on my mood.
Here's a nice page on a '55 Black Shadow - http://www.mctrader....icleid/85888.aspx
VincentÂs countless racing and speed record successes underlined the performance of its high-cam, 50-degree V-twin. In fact, attempts to run a 1000cc ClubmanÂs TT in the Isle of Man foundered after just three races because nothing could touch the Vincents  in the final 1950 edition, only Vincents took part. Nothing else could compete with these bike created by legendary Australian engineer, Phil Irving.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #385,473
1/18/14 6:13:01 PM
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Yes. It is, after all, and entertainment program.
But one that happens to centre on cars.
(And three (ageing) enthusiasts who do know their stuff and aren't afraid of looking like berks on international TV. :-)
Wade.
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Post #385,479
1/18/14 7:17:14 PM
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Wow! nice link; lots of familiars there..
Conway Motors: whence came my spares; from whom I bought my sl.-modified Sprite etc.
(And Syd Broomfield there, found me a bed in Shepherds Bush, at start of my Grand-tour.)
Surtees' father! George Brown/Nero + Super-Nero and the omnipresent VOC (owners club.)
{{sniff}}
Brakes: Physics reveals the thermodynamic limits of, even a ventilated 7" drum brake. Turned out that some superior linings appeared,
some of us did score the magnesium vented back-plates and that combo made for quite adequate decel
--but not indefinitely down-hill at max! natch.
Still, merely properly shod and with shoes ground to exact (expanded!) dia. In normal er, hooning--no sweat.
There were no disks then (or: they would have been std.)
(Going to larger dia was entertained by some of us: too many weight/other consequences nixed that what-if.)
I congratulate my parents for spawning moi, timed just-right to partake of these machines which were 'Adventurous'
merely to gaze-at ... while-parked. Pur sang ergonomics before the word got coined.
(And I thank Cthulhu for overlooking His several opportunities to queer-the-dice and gain fresh fodder.)
Vroooom
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Post #385,434
1/17/14 4:13:18 PM
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Re: muscle cars and muddle cars
>>> " Throughout the decade, of course, the Japanese would gain market share..."
For further reading:
The Reckoning, David Halberstam (1986)
"Powerfully developing his thesis that the complacency and shortsightedness of American workers and their bosses, especially the automakers of Detroit, have led to a decline of industrial know-how so critical that Asian carmakers, particularly the Japanese, have virtually taken over the market, Halberstam tells in panoramic detail a story that is alarming in its implications. "
http://www.amazon.co...rds=the+reckoning
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Post #385,436
1/17/14 5:21:05 PM
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A great book. They really should put out a new edition.
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Post #385,449
1/17/14 6:51:05 PM
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(Mightn't it be too painful to read/thus 'sell'?)
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Post #385,450
1/17/14 6:59:46 PM
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Thanks.. pretty unsurprising that Demming would be
blown-off by the Titans--those utterly--most in need of the analysis (but also 'Muricans'.)
Am a bit heartened when I have heard--a few times--of a CIEIO who welcomes, nay encourages al-punte feedback (implicitly: with no retaliation.)
Though I always wonder too: for how long can his/her ego sustain that policy? And will any subordinate really Believe that last clause??
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