Evidence has a habit of disappearing from the tubes.

Post #379,267 by mmoffitt 8/14/13 10:47:23 AM Reply	Evidence has a habit of disappearing from the tubes. You didn't click any of the links in the article I posted did you? Well, try this one: http://news.firedogl...ve-to-be-unified/ Then click the link for the White House Official Transcript the article references. Know what you'll get? 404. Have a nice day.
Post #379,269 by Another Scott 8/14/13 10:51:42 AM Reply	Archive.org is your friend. http://web.archive.o...allroom-10/20/09/ You've again missed my point. Try again. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #379,280 by mmoffitt 8/14/13 3:23:20 PM Reply	Re: Archive.org is your friend. First, thanks for linky. The President's response was, essentially, "I know what you want. I know you want real reform. I know you want everybody covered. I know you want real change. But you're not going to get it. See, I made a deal with all the privateers of the existing healthcare delivery system and you're not going to screw it up. So, suck it up and take what I hand you." AUDIENCE MEMBER: Single payer! AUDIENCE MEMBER: Public option! THE PRESIDENT: Let me say this, because somebody just brought up something. (Laughter.) Among Democrats and progressives there are a whole set of views about how we should do health care. But understand that the bill you least like in Congress right now, the one you least like of the five that are out there would provide 29 million Americans health care -- 29 million Americans who don't have it right now would get it. Would that be counting the people who would have gotten it, but won't because their hours are being cut back to insure they aren't eligible? So, was he speaking naively or did he know he was slinging B.S.? If he really wanted those people covered sans profits for his Wall Street buddies, he'd have been a strong advocate for Single Payer, no? The bill you least like would prevent insurance companies from barring you from getting health insurance because of preexisting conditions. (Applause.) Um, no. Actually for the overwhelming majority the existing healthcare plan policies themselves bar non-issuance for pre-existing conditions. Mind there is no cap for policy premiums - JUST AS THERE IS NONE IN THE ACA. So, swing and a miss again. Whatever the bill you least like would set up an exchange so that people right now who are having to try to bargain for health insurance on their own are suddenly part of a pool of millions that forces insurance companies to compete for their business and give them better deals and lower rates. Um, not Ed Zachary. A lot of states are not building these exchanges. And of those that do, there is no upper bound for health insurance premiums. So there are going to be some disagreements and details to work out. Um, yeah. Like a COMPLETE Do-Over. Was that your point? :0)
Post #379,285 by Another Scott 8/14/13 3:52:11 PM Reply	No time to address everything. But you're wrong about several of your points. Mind there is no cap for policy premiums - JUST AS THERE IS NONE IN THE ACA. http://www.towerswat...yers-health-plans The PPACA also tries to make premiums more affordable to enrollees in exchanges. Individuals with family incomes between 100% and 400% of the poverty level will be eligible for sliding-scale tax credits that cap the premium for a silver plan at 2% to 9.5% of family income.4 Those with incomes between 100% and 250% of the poverty level are also eligible for cost-sharing subsidies that raise the actuarial value of a silver plan to 73% to 94%, depending on income. At all income levels, the premium for the most expensive age group is limited to three times the premium for the least expensive age group within a given plan, which will likely reduce premiums for older people.5 Premiums may not vary by personal claims history or health status. Read the rest for more of the details. There are many cost-containment features in the PPACA and there's no reason to think they won't work - http://kff.org/healt...ealth-spending-2/ Changes coming under the ACA could also affect these trends significantly. Increases in coverage will induce a modest, one-time bump of a couple percent in spending as people who were previously uninsured get insurance and better access to health services. This will likely coincide with an expected economic recovery, so higher growth rates in health spending due to that recovery should not be attributed to the ACA simply because of the coincidental timing. On the other side of the ledger, the bulk of the Medicare savings included in the ACA Â primarily achieved through smaller increases in payments to providers Â have yet to be realized and will lower the future growth in spending in that program. Changes in the delivery system Â through accountable care organizations (ACOs) and bundled payments to providers Â may also yield results and help to keep ÂexcessÂ health costs down in public programs, as well as in private insurance. In addition, the ACAÂs tax on high cost, ÂCadillacÂ employer-sponsored health plans, scheduled to take effect in 2018, is expected to trim the cost of benefits and could lead to lower overall health spending as well. Yeah, it's possible to get insurance with pre-existing conditions. But how many people didn't because they couldn't afford it, didn't want to start a business, didn't qualify for Medicaid, etc., etc. http://www.webmd.com...ve-health-problem The Federal government will build exchanges for states that don't. https://www.healthca...ce/#state=indiana Health Insurance Marketplace in Indiana If you live in Indiana, youÂll use this website, HealthCare.gov, to apply for coverage, compare plans, and enroll. You can apply as early as October 1, 2013. Learn more about the Marketplace and how you can get ready. 48 days! Don't be late!!!11 FWIW. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #379,286 by mmoffitt 8/14/13 4:16:43 PM Reply	No time. Will be back tomorrow. Same Bat Channel, ... ;0)
Post #379,340 by mmoffitt 8/15/13 11:36:01 AM Reply	Okay, I'll revise. For anyone in the US making more that $46,000/year, there is no downward pressure on insurance premiums (http://aspe.hhs.gov/...ty.cfm#thresholds). And, gee, what a great deal for somebody making $45,000/year: the most they can pay a Wall Street traded, private health insurer is $4,275/year (of which up to 20% will never be spent on the delivery of healthcare). What a sweetheart of a deal! No wonder you support it! And in the face of everybody's health insurance premiums soaring, too.

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