Answer to (1)

Post #379,244 by mmoffitt 8/14/13 9:32:11 AM Reply	Answer to (1) We could have representative government. Two-thirds of Americans support Medicare-for-all (#3 of 6) Informative polls show two-thirds support for single-payer By Kip Sullivan, JD In Part 2 of this six-part series, I reported on the results of two Âcitizen juryÂ experiments in which advocates for single-payer, managed competition, and high-deductible policies spoke to, and were questioned by, ÂjuriesÂ that were representative of America. In the case of the 1993 ÂjuryÂ sponsored by the Jefferson Center, 71 percent voted for single-payer. In the case of the 1996 Âjury,Â 61 percent voted for single-payer when no specific information about its cost to individuals was presented, and 79 percent voted for a single-payer system that would have lowered premium and out-of-pocket costs by as much as taxes rose. Both juries rejected proposals relying on health insurance companies by huge majorities. ... Table 1: Polls indicating majority support for single-payer ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂFor single-payerÂÂ..Opposed to single-payer General public: Polls in which support is 60 percent or higher Harvard University/Harris (1988)(a)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ61%ÂÂÂÂ..not asked LA Times (1990)(b)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ.66%ÂÂÂÂ.not asked Wall Street Journal-NBC (1991)(c)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ.69%ÂÂÂÂÂ.20% Wash Post-ABC News (2003)(d)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ..62%ÂÂÂÂ.not asked Civil Society Institute (2004)(e)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ67%ÂÂÂÂÂ..27% AP-Yahoo (2007)(f)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ..65%ÂÂÂÂ..not asked Grove Insight (2009)(g)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ64%ÂÂÂÂÂ..28% Grove Insight (2009)(g)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ60%ÂÂÂÂÂ..27% General public: Polls in which support is below 60 percent AP-Yahoo (2007)(f)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ..54%ÂÂÂÂÂÂ.44% Kaiser Family Foundation (2009)(h)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ..58%ÂÂÂÂÂÂ.38% Kaiser Family Foundation (2009)(h)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ..50%ÂÂÂÂÂÂ.44% Doctors New Eng J Med (medical school faculty and students) (1999)ÂÂÂÂÂÂ.57%ÂÂÂÂÂ.not asked Arch Int Med (doctors) (2004)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ64%ÂÂÂÂÂ.not asked Minnesota Med (doctors) (2007)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ64%ÂÂÂÂÂ.not asked http://pnhp.org/blog...thirds-support-3/
Post #379,250 by folkert 8/14/13 10:07:32 AM Reply	Question. Do you HONESTLY think that if a Medicare for All bill were introduced and Obama said he was ALL FOR IT!!!11!!!!... how long do you think it would take for it to be voted on... and what do you think the outcome would be in the House and Senate, regardless? And please be honest. -- greg@gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Post #379,259 by mmoffitt 8/14/13 10:36:27 AM Reply	You've got a point. Obama is, at best, an ineffectual leader.
Post #379,274 by folkert 8/14/13 12:59:38 PM Reply	Ineffectual for certain things... Other things, he is doing great. I don't particularly care about many things the hand waving right is doing. Nor do I ethically approve of some of the things Obama is excelling at. But... if the Extreme Right (which is in charge of the GOP at the moment) were to actually see the insanity in which they are progressing... pushing the Bell Curve so far right that the left has dropped off... I wonder what would happen if they weren't so damned adversarial. -- greg@gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Post #379,251 by Another Scott 8/14/13 10:07:41 AM Reply	What color unicorn would you like with that? We could have 3% unemployment, too. Now please tell me how a Medicare for All bill would get through the House and Senate. Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
Post #379,256 by mmoffitt 8/14/13 10:27:45 AM Reply	Objection. Asked and Answered. It would only go through the Fed if we had representative government. A lot of idiots in 2008 thought they were getting "Change we can believe in", but they were delusional (and racist, BTW, "Look, he's got to be Progressive. He's mixed race!"). Obama's election made things much, much, much worse. What remained of the Left in this country has exited the process entirely. And why shouldn't they? If Obama is what passes for a Left-Of-Center politician in this country, we may as well leave everything to the Tea Baggers. We already had a Senate that was Wall Street Banker owned, his election meant we had an Executive branch that continued to be a Wall Street Banker owned institution. The House, under Pelosi and with a strong Democratic majority, was itself largely functional and the only representative government we had. But the betrayal of the Left by Obama (who gave him the White House in the first place) meant that they stayed home in the 2010 elections. The Wingnut Hard Right has one thing correct: Obama's election destroyed what was left of the country. But not for the reasons they think (his mixed race); rather, for the reason that he successfully passed as a Liberal and then showed his true Bush III colors.
Post #379,287 by hnick 8/14/13 5:04:19 PM Reply	Welp, you've made this forum a lot easier to traverse. Since only things that Big Money supports will get votes in the senate, and Big Money wants an authoritarian and unfettered fascist government, I guess fascism in the U.S. is a foregone conclusion. Not my cup of tea, but since you seem to support it, I guess everything will be fine. And it saves so much reading. Nothing to see here; we'll all be told exactly what reality is (at the moment.)
Post #379,288 by Another Scott 8/14/13 5:13:19 PM Reply	<sigh> Few things would make me happier than Medicare for All. I'd like to see it in my lifetime. Similarly for (a sensible system for) publicly funded election campaigns with uniform national voting standards (for things like days for early voting, mail-in ballots, acceptable proof of eligibility, etc., etc.). Given the *reality* of the composition of the House and Senate over the last 5+ years, and the history of the USA, I'm willing to accept incremental progress. I understand where you folks are coming from - believe it or not. I just don't think that throwing spitballs from the peanut gallery is the way to get to where we (including me) want to be. Idealism has its place for inspiring people to do better. When it becomes a hindrance to actual progress, well, then it's a hindrance to actual progress. ;-) My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.

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