There's a difference between physically / emotionally ready.

Post #37,346 by Another Scott 5/3/02 12:37:43 PM Reply	There's a difference between physically / emotionally ready. Due to better/richer diets, children mature faster physically than they did hundreds of years ago or in regions of poorer diets. [link\|http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/gnrh.html\|UVa Link]. The brain continues to change long after the onset of puberty. [link\|http://www.nimh.nih.gov/sciadvances/0005.cfm\|NIMH Link]. Emotional and intellectual maturity comes long after the onset of puberty. Don't confuse sexual development with being "ready" for sex. Cheers, Scott.
Post #37,348 by imric 5/3/02 12:53:48 PM Reply	sigh Look - I don't believe that sex is 'OK' at the point of sexual maturity - I don't think it wise, nor do I think it healthy. I DO NOT believe it is traumatic when both partners consent, however. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #37,356 by Another Scott 5/3/02 1:32:27 PM Reply	But what does "consent" mean with a 12-14 yr old?
Post #37,366 by imric 5/3/02 2:59:12 PM Reply	What does that have to do with trauma? Let's see. The boy got what he wanted (consensual, remember?). It may be bad to do - and it may be bad for him. It is (and should be) illegal - at least here. That's doesn't make it traumatic. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #37,377 by Ashton 5/3/02 4:53:53 PM Reply	Actual source of 'trauma' IMhO: I have personally seen the hymen of a 30 year old virgo intacta. It was an extremely 'strong' hymen -- possibly such that best of all would have been for her to get a small bit of surgical help. (Other details are irrelevant here, except to say that: any male "forcing" an entry in the usual ignorant way - would have caused, you fucking well Would call it - trauma !) I know of a couple similar cases - and in one, about the rather lengthy er 'preparatory phases' - this male was not an unfeeling jerk, in that case. So - biology is quite clearly a Significant Difference. Obviously there is the other extreme - little or no hymen at all. Or earlier tampon use, masturbation, may have obviated any concern. (And masturbation damn well Does begin in the single-digit years, for many) That having been said, I concur that 'trauma' is Not about the question of "being ready", nor is the First Time guaranteed to be traumatic "at some age." All above comments noted. Agree also that "ready" is as evanescent an idea as was suggested. Consent OTOH connotes, at least a modicum of awareness of what is likely to follow, including dehymen -ating -izing whatever! Despite the widespread scourge of Puritan Anti-sex - always under the guise of Guilt: there are indeed! parties of both sexes, entirely capable of a pleasant experience of intercourse, sometimes at a quite young age! That there is the usual Gaussian.. distribution, should hardly surprise anyone here. So then - society always makes Rules re the LCD. And we are stuck with them.. and I agree that some Rules are inescapable. (Some are even, occasionally Wise Rules - despite the norm). Sex rules re kids always err on the conservative side. Prolly fine - given the percentage of real Adult Assholes hovering about. 8 years old has got to be about 4-SDs from the Mean, I suspect all here would agree. THAT event - surely qualified as 'traumatic' unless of course - the pregnancy was not from the First fuck -?- (if she was an abandoned Street Arab -- guess! whether the male gave the slightest shit ?!) We Muricans may expect our own Street Arabs to increase.. as present wealth concentration continues to create the Two-Class society: Very Rich + degrees of Poor. I'll go with Imric on the argument against automatically presuming trauma -- no matter WHAT the age. 'Consent' may indeed be debatable - but when a homo-sap WANTS to find out about getting laid (never mind vicissitudes of hymen elasticity) - S/He is likely to find a Way. That hymen may, as with another factoid I know of - yield to a quite artificial penis, and that act was bloody-well by Consent of the Self-operator! YMMV - let's just not assign trauma where.. dumbth? horniness? curiosity? ____ are more accurate. Ashton who naturally blames embedded anti-body Puritanism for most of our troubles in simply behaving like Natural animals (and yes, also with a conscience - which Can be developed without the need for scary stories about Eternal Punishments\ufffd or promises of post-death Disneyland Shopping Malls in the Sky). Maybe in the next.. yuga, we can get it right.
Post #37,526 by boxley 5/4/02 9:33:39 PM Reply	30 yr old hymen intactum? Cant stand it gotta comment Just flip er over. Never had a virgin that I know of, just treat them all as virgins and queens. thanx, Bill
Post #37,388 by Another Scott 5/3/02 5:55:58 PM Reply	I was addressing a different issue. One that seems to be off of your main thread. I agree that "trauma" depends on the people involved, the circumstances, the results, and lots of similar things. What I was attempting to address was the issue of whether a child (maybe not physically, maybe even not mentally, but perhaps emotionally a child) can give "consent". (You said, earlier in the thread, "I DO NOT believe it is traumatic when both partners consent, however.") The law usually says no. E.g. a child can't legally enter into (most?) contracts. They usually regarded under the law as being in need of protection. I think we all know that children can be fairly easily manipulated, and are capable of manipulating each other to consent to do things that aren't in their interest. Simply saying that they each consented doesn't address the issue of whether the consent was freely given, etc., or whether it can be reasonably given by someone who is too young. So you're concentrating on the trauma, I'm concentrating on the consent. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #37,392 by imric 5/3/02 6:24:47 PM Reply	Hmm. I was thinking of consensual in the sense that the child wasn't compelled against thier will. Now, kids CAN be manipulated - and tricked, of course. That's why there IS an age of majority, after all. I think the age that one can truly understand the consequences of your actions in this regard is about 35, though. Maybe 40. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #37,443 by Mike 5/4/02 1:57:08 AM Reply	Yes >>I think the age that one can truly understand the consequences of your >>actions in this regard is about 35, though. Excellent. -- William Shatner's Trousers --

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