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New A bit of bad news today
My annual review came up, and I was told that for being at the firm for four years that I am not being productive enough. That they need someone with a higher skill level. That my communication skills are not good enough, and that I need to improve in many areas. Just last year I was told I was doing great, and only needed to improve in a few areas.

Basically I feel like the goldfish that outgrew the bowel, scared the other goldfish and am now being let go. :(

But it is both a curse and a blessing. A curse in that I will be having finacial hard times if unemployed and may have to settle for a lower paying job. A blessing in that I will be out of that environment, and I hope to learn from my experince there. If I find a higher paying job that will train me to get the better skills I need to advance, then it will have been a blessing. If I get stuck with the same type of job for less pay and it ends up being worse, then it will be a curse.

So the top priority is to make sure that I'll have income coming in. Be that if I have to work extra hours to be more productive and work on my communication skills and try to improve in other areas so I can get out of a 60 day probation period. Or look for another job with the same or better pay, and hope to get a better one. I haven't agressively looked and if I end up unemployed, I am going to have a lot of time on my hands.

I was told that I have three choices:

1. Take the 60 day probationary peroid, and if I mess up even once I am terminated.

2. Resign and get 30 days worth of pay. I am told they would not contest unemployment benefits, but I find that hard to believe.

3. Work for two weeks, clean up the projects and document everything and then get terminated and get two weeks worth of pay.

I must add that I was not told I these things until now. I suspect that the economy must have hit them hard, and me having seniority and four years worth of pay raises (the other programmers quit that got hired before me and went on to other jobs) must have made the lawyers and managers consider getting rid of me first. If I was in a union, I am sure that I wouldn't be in this situation.

So I am cutting out any sort of Internet time at work, I won't even check my email at lunch anymore or read this forum or Experts-Exchange or any others during the day. Goodbye Microsoft Knowledge Base, goodbye Technical support forums, goodbye everything else. I do not want to risk it, I'll have to support everything myself and do it blind. If that means getting out sloppy code with bugs in it to be discovered later like the rest of the programmers, then so be it. It seems the managers are only interested in the time it takes to get a project done, instead of the quality of the project. While other developers might take 6 or more project time slots to fix what I could in 1 time slot, except that mine appears to take longer, then so be it. 6 times slots of 7 days each appears to be shorter than 1 time slot of 30 days in their eyes. I'll only add a few features at a time, as long as I can release workable code. No more adding the entire list at once and taking my time to do it all. IT has just become a Fast Food type industry, I must either adapt or get let go.

Any ideas? I kind of have mixed feelings right now. Consider that I'll be joining the uninstalled at IWETHEY soon.

"I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!"  Moe Howard

New Hope you weather the storm...
...it's hard to say which of the options should be taken. Since you're working for a legal firm, it may be that they're just trying to do a layoff without wanting to pay for it.

I got laid off at the first of the year and found a contracting job about a month later. Started a new job 3 weeks ago - that just happened to be the same work for the one I got laid off on - but this time I came in as a full timer and not a contractor.

Anyhow, getting axed turned out to be a very good thing for me, as the contracting firm I was working with is sinking fast. Not long ago, though, I was sweating as the bills don't seem to stop when the paycheck ceases. From this side, it was a good thing, but during the midst of unemployment, time seems to take forever (not to mention that I was working harder when I was unemployed than when I was going to work everyday).
New Re: A bit of bad news today
Looks like the y are looking for a way to get rid of you quietly. No matter what you do in the next 60 days, they'll find a fault with it.

Logical conclusion would be to take 2 weeks + 2 weeks and run, but with the current market status, I am not sure any more.
New But there is another option I had not considered
The Americans With Disabilties Act prohibits firing someone because of a disability.

I have seen doctors for a while now, due to many illnesses. I have documented this with my employer when I turned in excuse notes and receipts that outlined that I had suffered from Depression, Major Mood Disorder, High Blood Pressure, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Gastral Reflux, and others.

If I am too sick to do the job properly, and am unable to give the level of performance that they need, does that make me disabled? I have short-term disability and long-term disability insurance. My doctors can back me up on this, they'd seen me enough times and gave me medication for my illness. Also I documented it here and on EzBoard. I had not thought about it before now.

"I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!"  Moe Howard

New Realistically, don't bother.
You have to be completely prevented from doing your job in order to invoke that.

My sister-in-law is completely blind in one eye, and having problems with her left eye (diabetes). She can't even get disability pay, because she can still see "well enough" to do her job.
Regards,

-scott anderson
New Hey bud sorry to hear this
clean up the code and take the 2 weeks with 2 weeks pay. You will not survive the 60 day probation and they pray that you resign so they dont have to pay unemployment. It is interesting that they had this conversation after you went on vacation. I hope you mentioned that your expectations of them is much lower than last year as well. Keep us informed.
thanx and good luck,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Sorry to hear of it, Orion.
It's clear they want you out. Focus on getting another job.

Spend no time here during working hours. But, keep us posted from home.

Good luck!
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New Just based on your past experiences with this company,
I'd recommend going with option 3.

Good luck with the new job hunt.

Darrell Spice, Jr.

[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

New OK I'm confused
With option 2 you get 4 weeks pay and don't have to do anything + you get unemployment benefits.

With option 3 you get 4 weeks pay and you have to put in 80 hours of work.

Why wouldn't you take option 2?

(Option 1 has the highest potential payout but you have to eat the most shit - depends on how long you want to lick boots).
New they claim he will get benefits
this is a law firm. Even in writing that promise wont mean much. Never resign when under preasure to do so, it will always haunt you.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Yes I don't believe them
when they say if I resign I will get unemployment and they will not contest it. An ex-coworker of mine had that happen to him, and he was unable to get his unemployment, he had to appeal and fight for it. Or so he told me.

I do not think that they have been fair and honest with me so far, why should I take 60 days probation when they can make something up or exagerate something (like take what I say out of context) as an excuse to get rid of me, and then say "but we put him on probation and gave him a chance"? Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. What reasons do I have to trust them or believe them now?

Tomorrow I meet with someone from HR, and examine my choices to make a decision. Sort of like them having a gun aimed at me and asking me if I want a bullet in the foot, the groin, or the head.

"I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!"  Moe Howard

New Take #1.
FOr this simple reason. 2 weeks per year buys you 8 weeks. 56 days.

They are giving you 60 to "clean up your act".

With either...you get unemployment, no matter what....if you resign...they can (and probably would) make sure you get nothing REGARDLESS of what they tell you.

Then...start looking for a job NOW.
Um...er...well...

I have no choice!

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New I'll take it under advisement
At this point I am not sure what decision to make. I am glad that they are giving me time to make up my mind, instead of them trying to decide for me or just terminate me on the spot and escourt me off the building.

I talked to the HR Lady today, apparently the doctor notices never made it to my personel file, I even submitted copies of the bills. Despite me telling my supervisor earlier they claimed they didn't know I was ill. Either they are trying to ignore the fact that I was ill, or there is a communication issue with the company. I feel that they should at least be aware of my illness, even if they have not acknowledged it in the past.

I am going to apply for a medical leave or a short term disability due to the depression. My AntiDepressant medicine had been changed and I had side-effects that gave me serious medical problems. I think I need time to adjust to the medicine before I can make a decision this serious in my life. All I have to do is get a letter from my doctor. He left the office for the day, and should call me back on Monday. I should note that I had these problems before the annual review. I am told that I have some sick leave built up, they will fidn out how much. The time off work will depend on what my Doctor thinks.

I am not sure if I can get a job right away, this has all been a lot for me to handle. I feel like a failure, and that I don't have the confidence I once had before I worked for their company. It could be from the depression, or the stress, or maybe just the way the job has gone.

If I take probation, and they decide to fire me, I would still get unemployment, right? I have not signed anything yet. Rumors are flying at work already with people saying I already signed the papers and took the 60 day probation. A coworker confronted me with this, and I told him that I did not sign any probation papers. That is how I found out. That is one of my concerns, if someone spreads an untrue rumor about me signing the papers, what happens to me if while on probation someone spreads another untrue rumor and management believes it?

"I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!"  Moe Howard

New I am sorry
I feel like I should have better trust of management. If I decide to stay I am going to have to work on that. I am not perfect, and have made my share of mistakes. My depression being one of them, and letting stress get to me being another one. Best I can do is check myself into a hospital to get better. I feel like I have failed.

New What?
Are you blaming yourself for not trusting known liars?

No, you *shouldn't* stay there. Because they aren't trustworthy.

You SHOULD get out. We've been telling you this for how long?

You shouldn't "Work on trusting them".

Fool you once, shame on me.

Fool you twice, shame on you.

Addison
New Any word from Orion?
That post smelled like "I have lawyers standing behind me and I'm in deep shit." And I don't think I've seen anything from him since.

Unfortunately, that's the benign interpretation, and there is an uglier one.

White guys in suits know best
- Pat McCurdy
New I got an email a few days ago, Ill check
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New What happened to me
I got so depressed and sick that I had to check into a hospital for a while. I applied for short-term disability (60% of my salary) until I can recover. I am recovering at home but I am not ready to return to work and make a decision on what to do yet. I had to work up the confidence to check my email and read and post on here.

My depression got worse after the review and it got so bad I just couldn't go back to work. As you all know, I was suffering from a depression already, and it got so bad now that I had to check into a hospital. I am currently trying to recover from it enough to get back to work and make a decision on what to do.

If I do quit, I'd like to find a job closer to home that pays about the same as the job I currently (might still) have. I think I can do better than the current employer I am working for.

If I decide to stay and take probation, how will I know this won't happen again?

Picking up the pieces of my broken life.
New hey buddy we were worried about ya
will email my phone no to yer last known web address. Doc has some free time now his contract is over, wuz trying to get in touch the other day.
youll make it, ya have the will to beat this shit.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New I was kind of out of it
for a while. Couldn't even fire up the old computer to check email for a while. That was how out of it I was. But I am starting to feel better now. My doctor changed my dosage and told me to call back in a week.

I think that short-term can last for 6 months, after that I have long-term disability. I am just now starting to get better. It is the Doctor's call now as to how long I should be out.

Picking up the pieces of my broken life.
New Something maybe not brought to your attention
I haven't the foggiest where your talents lie in the exciting field of VB, as you know.. but that doesn't really matter for these purposes.

What maybe (?) you haven't grokked about certain homo-saps, and especially those in the bizness class, lawyer sub-class: See, actually OhRyan, it's pretty clear that you have a good heart. No flattery intended or needed - last thing you need to hear now, is More BS!

Simply, you are in fact "a bit too 'good'" to flourish in an environment quite so prevarication-based; you lack the instinctive talent for lying instantly, for each occasion (just my take from a distance).

What you may not realize is - the effect 'you' are likely to have on -- those of slimeball general makeup; those who maintain their positions in bizness by backbiting amidst the suits, dissing their betters via various nasty ploys. There are quite a few of those around. Tennessee Williams and others, made a good living - telling their stories.

When one of these semi-humans encounters one of youse? They Know instinctively, "this guy is up to no bad". I've gotta do *something* to bring him down to my level..

Really. It was similar in Rome; the slaves were the 'superiors' and the more perceptive Romans realized this - basic humankind 101-A. Made them look *bad*, which of course: they were.

See too? Criticism from such - has 0 / zippo to do with who you are, or how well you did/did not (?) clean up the scripting crap left by previous folks.

(It just wouldn't *do* for you to - imagine you'd "actually been fairly 'evaluated' and found wanting"! Any such BS from those folks could only have been: BS! Clear?)



Sorry.. if you'd gotten this already; in which case - never mind!

It's also OK to thoroughly enjoy.. not doing much at all, right now.. Occasional loafing is really *Fun* and also essential.



A.
New What is clear to me
is that no mater what I have to make a change.

Either I change my job to a new one, I try to change myself to adapt to work at the current one the way they want me to, or I quit and take my chances looking for a new job. Changing jobs is hard right now due to the fact that I am on short-term disability, showing up to a job interview while depressed won't work unless they are looking for a depressed person to work the job. All the short-term disability has bought me is some time to get better and think about what I have to do. Only type of job I can get really quickly is a contracting job. Just sign up at a contacting company and hope that they can send me to a client to work. Perminate jobs will require them some time to review my application.

Thanks to everyone for thinking about me and wishing me a recovery. Sorry I haven't been posting more often, I have tried to cut back on my Internet usage. I think I am addicted to using the Internet and I am trying to break myself of it.

Given time to recover I should be fine. I'll talk to my doctor next week and see what he thinks.

Picking up the pieces of my broken life.
New by all means put the keyboard down and get better:)
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them?
Randy Wayne White
New Sounds quite clear enough.
Being depressed about the 'world' can occur from simply: too close inspection of some of 'its' illusions. But your mind isn't working half-bad, I'd opine.

(And your chosen field appears to contain about as much daily BS as my simple mind could never imagine, unassisted)
Hmmm?

Yes - cool out. Ignore lots of stuff, including 'us' :-\ufffd

(Recall too - takes some acclimating to peace&quiet, when you've had little time for it..)


Cheers,
A.
New Ahh, yes to have the time to scratch yerself
then keep on scratching:) think I might have some extra time myself. Rumors are a flyin will know by friday.
thanx,
bill
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them?
Randy Wayne White
New Will light candle.
To join a couple others sufferin the vicissitudes in other areas. Some of the proposed legislation is decidedly heading Repo and may stay that way til another election allows us to send Cheney/Dubya back to the oil bizness.

Hope your skill at evading the HR brand of BS gets you a better shot than most - experience has to count for more than a College of San Mateo 'MCSE' by proxy (?)

Luck,

A.
who still wonders what it will take for IT folk to start contributing to *some* National-level lobbying against the balderdash coming down the pike. This is Murica and ONLY $$ talks in such a way as to be listened to.. Buy yourselves a Repo today!
New Kinda figured you were cooling out..
(And that you already know there's a penalty for checking out of the room early, even if it sucks lately)

Book says that, if you've actually been getting normal night's sleep for a week or more and - away from a work environment that would drive anyone normal, nutzo or postal:

You should be feeling better. No? (less'n you're still full of chemical experiments.. I know: it's hard to break young MDs of their drugging habits; it's all most of them know. Y'know? Have to shop for the rare ones, not yet brainwashed. Really - there *are* such, and you already know what hasn't been working at all, last you mentioned.)

Try to remind yourself that, waking up every day in a better and better frame of mind, and looking for a better place to hang out - is your best revenge on those thoroughly unpleasant bastards. Life's too short to spend it right next to assholes, every day. [Remember ??]

Those first 3 seconds on waking up - you can plant a suggestion right *then*. Try it; it's a rare period just before you realize umm 'where you are, yet'.. Works for me.


Cheers,

Ashton
New Glad you're still with us.
It's encouraging you were able to seek professional medical help and did so. I'll try to remember to pray for you.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New {Phew!} Great to hear from you.
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New how long until your short term disability runs out?
mine is 6 months, can you make it on 60%? If then take as long as you need. At this point the Americans with Disabilities Act is in your favor since they are not fighting your disability claim. Might even give you some negotiation room.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New good to see you
Glad to see your post, I hope and pray this is the bottom for you, nowhere to go but UP!

:)
-----
Steve
New Welcome back. Sincere best of luck. Hang in there.
New Glad to hear from you
I was kind of worried.

Sounds like you are taking care of business, getting yourself put back together. I notice the tone of your message is much more calm and coherent than some of your messages before you took that break.

Once you start getting it together, you are capable of so much more - problems that had you completely stumped a while ago will probably be reasonably solvable now.
White guys in suits know best
- Pat McCurdy
New Great to hear from you, good luck
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
New Add one more well-wisher
As another struggling with Ye Olde Inner Daemons, I feel for ya buddy. Mine may not be as heavy as yours, but remember you have a wife that loves you, a bunch of friends that do care about you (even if they are a little trigger happy with that 'ol flamethrower sometimes!) and the sun will still come up tomorrow!
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Time to start looking after #1
Take care of yourself and your family.

There *is* a job out there with your name on it, at a company that won't treat you like shit. It's just a matter of finding it :-)

Warmest wishes from the UK.
--
Peter
Shill For Hire
New Seems like 3 is the reasonable choice. But...
Hi Norm,

Sorry you're in that situation. I hope you bounce back soon.

#1 is very risky. Seems to me that if they didn't want you to leave they would have told you earlier on that you needed to improve. Thus, #1 seems to lead to a bad end (sooner or later).

#2 doesn't make sense to me. It's my understanding that you can't get unemployment insurance if you resign. But IANAL and may very well be misinformed.

#3 seems to be the only reasonable choice. Clean things up reasonably well, leave and collect unemployment while you search for your next position. Try to leave on relatively good terms as you'll probably have to list them as references.

Do you have any vacation time or sick leave you haven't used? Find out if they'll pay you for any time like that which you haven't used yet.

Best of luck.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Sick leave and Short-Term disability
HR is checking into what sick leave I have left. All that is needed is a note from my doctor and I am sure that I can get that and fax it to HR. The medical condition is real, I am under care for it, and things haven't been going well for me. So I can take sick leave and try to get better, or apply for short-term disability and get 60% of the salary and keep my insurance going. Then after the sick leave or short-term disability I can decide what action to take.

I appreciate the help I got from here and the advice. I will provide updates.

"I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!"  Moe Howard

New its sounds like the company is sick not you.
If you have serious sick time built up take it. Show up at yer docs and tell him straight out that they are trying to fire you over being sick. You have x amount of sick time built up use it under HR guidelines. Then be brutal with your manager. Tell him you feel the company is taking advantage of you, disclosing HR records to co-workers is illegal and nastily ask if he knows of any lawyers that like to do wrongful dismisal suits. Tell him that you are a loyal employee but feel the need to place your interests over the companies interest due to bad management. Do it in writing and CC the Senior Partners. Before you do that on the QT find out which firms seriously has a grudge against yer firm and if anything happens approach the immediately. I do not advocate suing, just let them know if they let you go it is to their benefit not to fsck you any further. You are competant, knowledgeable and these fsckers are looking for sweatshop workers.
my 2 cents,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New You are working for lawyers. Right?
Do you imagine that the wiles of anyone here (plus your own) can match the combined self-interest of a whole company of lawyers?

There appear to be some obvious and some subtle consequences of the details, including the non-acknowledgment of illness (which you are able to authenticate, document by bills and their dates) - and some leaks of confidential info, as Bill points out. These are obvious bargaining chips. But you have to have some bargaining instruction first. There may well be *lots* you ought not discuss with *their* HR!

You aren't Bill (or me or anyone else here) nor, I think - can you do a particularly good job of pretending a "self-assurance" you say you don't feel.. And in case you have forgotten: in bizness life as in the rest - most often you are playing a role and being judged by others playing their roles. You'd have to act out of character IMhO, to bring off a "change of personality" - ie a Better Bluff than theirs! Y'know?

Whatever are the choices offered you: they are 'devices' of a group which sees some benefit to themselves - whichever choice you make. Clearly this company is not about to explain to you ~ what they are surely aware of:

Any strengths of argument you *would make* - if you had studied the options, were aware of the laws, aware of the company's failings (and perhaps misrepresentations and outright lies too).

Were it I - I would not imagine I could play it all by ear, and choose on instinct: against trained sharks ???

Whatever other uses you have for the $, and however much that worries you - can you think of a better place to spend some $, than having at least one lawyer *working for you* right now?

The mere act of hiring one! might be a most beneficial part of "your role in this play". Further, should your advisor agree: there might be an excellent (and likely personally satisfying - cackle..) way of 'breaking the news' to your resident shark tank..

Anyway.. my advice is: Don't take our or *your own* amateur advice. BUY some professional advice and use the results to the hilt of the sword thrust deep into the collective shark-chest. And smile. Attitude is fucking ALL in these daily idiotic games. You WILL feel more confident, with some help - and you CAN learn how to display that. Yes, you too.

(IMO you are a lot smarter than they think you are, but you are likely Not a better 'bizness actor' than they think you are. No?) So don't 'act as if you know' .. act from knowledge.



(If you 'save' that cost, you'll never know what might have gone better, and you may regret that feeling long after the thrill is gone).


FWIW.

A.
     A bit of bad news today - (orion) - (39)
         Hope you weather the storm... - (ChrisR)
         Re: A bit of bad news today - (Arkadiy) - (2)
             But there is another option I had not considered - (orion) - (1)
                 Realistically, don't bother. - (admin)
         Hey bud sorry to hear this - (boxley)
         Sorry to hear of it, Orion. - (a6l6e6x)
         Just based on your past experiences with this company, - (SpiceWare)
         OK I'm confused - (tuberculosis) - (27)
             they claim he will get benefits - (boxley) - (26)
                 Yes I don't believe them - (orion) - (25)
                     Take #1. - (bepatient) - (1)
                         I'll take it under advisement - (orion)
                     I am sorry - (orion) - (22)
                         What? - (addison) - (21)
                             Any word from Orion? - (mhuber) - (20)
                                 I got an email a few days ago, Ill check -NT - (boxley) - (19)
                                     What happened to me - (orion) - (18)
                                         hey buddy we were worried about ya - (boxley) - (7)
                                             I was kind of out of it - (orion) - (6)
                                                 Something maybe not brought to your attention - (Ashton) - (5)
                                                     What is clear to me - (orion) - (4)
                                                         by all means put the keyboard down and get better:) -NT - (boxley)
                                                         Sounds quite clear enough. - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                             Ahh, yes to have the time to scratch yerself - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                 Will light candle. - (Ashton)
                                         Kinda figured you were cooling out.. - (Ashton)
                                         Glad you're still with us. - (static)
                                         {Phew!} Great to hear from you. -NT - (Meerkat)
                                         how long until your short term disability runs out? - (boxley)
                                         good to see you - (Steve Lowe)
                                         Welcome back. Sincere best of luck. Hang in there. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                         Glad to hear from you - (mhuber)
                                         Great to hear from you, good luck -NT - (drewk)
                                         Add one more well-wisher - (inthane-chan)
                                         Time to start looking after #1 - (pwhysall)
         Seems like 3 is the reasonable choice. But... - (Another Scott) - (3)
             Sick leave and Short-Term disability - (orion) - (2)
                 its sounds like the company is sick not you. - (boxley)
                 You are working for lawyers. Right? - (Ashton)

Then again you wonder how certain people sign their names to anything and still choose to leave the house.
166 ms