Who is the "us"

Post #293,468 by bepatient 9/23/07 10:46:04 AM Reply	Who is the "us" if that means "the american people" then how else do you define it? We, the people.... remember? Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #293,470 by Seamus 9/23/07 11:28:44 AM Reply	You are making my point by admitting that you can't see any other way to interpret the ad. Since you are acting like Rush Limbaugh and are being a Big, Fat Idiot: I believe the ad implies that he lead us astray not that he was a traitor. Again, just because one definition of traitor uses the word betray doesn't mean every use of the word betray implies someone his being called a traitor. Seamus
Post #293,481 by bepatient 9/23/07 4:28:40 PM Reply	No. I'm using the leading defintion of the word. And even if you don't...our consitution equates the people and the government...which equates it to the definition you are trying to chose. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #293,482 by Seamus 9/23/07 4:56:08 PM Reply	Yes you are. You are saying there is only one to way to interpret the ad. Your way. That is where our disagreement is. Seamus
Post #293,485 by bepatient 9/23/07 6:15:43 PM Reply	No again I'm being told that my interpretation is wrong and that I'm using the word incorrectly, hence my repeated beating you over the head with the freakin definition. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #293,489 by Seamus 9/23/07 6:45:31 PM Reply	And you keep missing Personally, I think your opinion is wrong, but it is the logic you are using to prove that your opinion is correct is what I am arguing about. To me, you are saying because one definition of the word traitor defines it using the word betray, that is the most logical meaning of the ad. I am saying that most people don't use the word betray when they want to call someone a traitor. They call them a traitor. That is why I think your logic is flawed. If it is your opinion that moveon.org wanted people to read the ad as calling the general a traitor, I don't agree, but I am not arguing that point. Seamus
Post #293,496 by bepatient 9/23/07 9:59:44 PM Reply	Then we should stop because I think they wanted it read that way and I also think that it was done with that as its intent. You seem to think these guys are alot nicer than they really are. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #293,498 by Another Scott 9/23/07 10:21:48 PM Reply	Horse's mouth. [link\|http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus_ad.html\|MoveOn.org]: Was the language inflammatory? The language of the ad was intended to be both hard-hitting and catchy. The truth about the mainstream media is that the kind of analyses with which some of us feel more comfortable don\ufffdt generate enough attention or news coverage to shift the debate. Phrases like \ufffdGeneral Betray Us\ufffd are \ufffdsticky\ufffd\ufffdthat is, they get repeated again and again in the media\ufffdbecause they are so memorable. It was precisely because this ad was controversial and the language in it was \ufffdsticky\ufffd that the allegations at its core were widely discussed. Moreover, every word of the ad was entirely accurate\ufffdthe General has in fact cooked the books, and in doing so, he betrayed the public trust. The link has a link to a YouTube clip of Eli Pariser on HardBall discussing the ad (for those interested - I haven't seen it). I take their comments at face value - because it's the simplest explanation; I guess you don't. Oh well. Cheers, Scott. (Who can't resist beating a dead horse sometimes...)
Post #293,510 by Seamus 9/24/07 7:55:36 AM Reply	Probably should I don't think they were trying to being nice with the ad or make any claims about how nice they are in general. Just that claiming someone is a traitor is a line they chose to get close to, but not cross. I do think they knew some people would think they crossed that line, but were willing to gamble that more voters would side with them. Not a good gamble to take in this environment. I wasn't trying to change your opinion, I still think a majority of people don't think of traitor when they use the word betray. Your flawed logic aside, I don't think most people who think the moveon.org ad called the general a traitor didn't have anything other than a gut feeling. And I can stop anytime I want. Seamus

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