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New Because on the point of traitor
I'm not wrong. The "whatever" is simply delivered when it becomes clear that the opposition is cleary intent on not accepting the position, no matter how clear the definitions are.

On the point that the Hill was incorrect in not responding, I continued researching that to discover that she did, in fact, vote on the Boxer amendment...which results in a resounding "good for her for having a spine".

Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New And Rand's first (main?) point: On all those other points...
...throughout the years, you weren't wrong *either*, never, ever, were you?

Yeah, that sounds oh-so-plausible.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New My opinion is not incorrect.
It is my opinion.

Opinions vary.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New And you've never, ever, over the years claimed...
...anything other than "opinions"; never anything of an actual *factual* nature? For one thing, I sincerely doubt that.

For another, you seem to be of the opinion that opinions (just by virtue of being "opinions") can't be correct or incorrect.

That's incorrect.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New Well sorry then
my opinion on opinions must not have been correct.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Echo much? Yeah, that's exactly what I fucking well *said*.
New Well hu-freakin-zah for you.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Because on the point of traitor you are not correct
Gen Betray Us is not the same thing as calling him a traitor because traitor has a very specific meaning when applied to the military. The definition you quoted is a much more informal use of the word traitor.

You are entitled to your opinion that moveon.org intended to confuse the meanings. I am not about to argue with you about that. But, you have not proved your point that they called him a traitor. Not by a long shot.
Seamus
New Yes, we are at an impasse.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New This is what bugs me about this whole mess
I can't believe that you don't understand the difference between telling someone they have betrayed you and telling them you think they are a traitor. I find it amazing that you can't admit that just because traitor is defined in terms of a betrayal, that not all betrayal is traitorous.

It boggles my mind.
Seamus
New Who is the "us"
if that means "the american people" then how else do you define it?

We, the people.... remember?
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New You are making my point by admitting that
you can't see any other way to interpret the ad. Since you are acting like Rush Limbaugh and are being a Big, Fat Idiot: I believe the ad implies that he lead us astray not that he was a traitor.

Again, just because one definition of traitor uses the word betray doesn't mean every use of the word betray implies someone his being called a traitor.

Seamus
New No.
I'm using the leading defintion of the word. And even if you don't...our consitution equates the people and the government...which equates it to the definition you are trying to chose.

Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Yes you are. You are saying there is only one to way to
interpret the ad. Your way. That is where our disagreement is.
Seamus
New No again
I'm being told that my interpretation is wrong and that I'm using the word incorrectly, hence my repeated beating you over the head with the freakin definition.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New And you keep missing
Personally, I think your opinion is wrong, but it is the logic you are using to prove that your opinion is correct is what I am arguing about.

To me, you are saying because one definition of the word traitor defines it using the word betray, that is the most logical meaning of the ad. I am saying that most people don't use the word betray when they want to call someone a traitor. They call them a traitor. That is why I think your logic is flawed.

If it is your opinion that moveon.org wanted people to read the ad as calling the general a traitor, I don't agree, but I am not arguing that point.





Seamus
New Then we should stop
because I think they wanted it read that way and I also think that it was done with that as its intent.

You seem to think these guys are alot nicer than they really are.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Horse's mouth.
[link|http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus_ad.html|MoveOn.org]:

Was the language inflammatory?

The language of the ad was intended to be both hard-hitting and catchy. The truth about the mainstream media is that the kind of analyses with which some of us feel more comfortable don\ufffdt generate enough attention or news coverage to shift the debate.

Phrases like \ufffdGeneral Betray Us\ufffd are \ufffdsticky\ufffd\ufffdthat is, they get repeated again and again in the media\ufffdbecause they are so memorable. It was precisely because this ad was controversial and the language in it was \ufffdsticky\ufffd that the allegations at its core were widely discussed.

Moreover, every word of the ad was entirely accurate\ufffdthe General has in fact cooked the books, and in doing so, he betrayed the public trust.


The link has a link to a YouTube clip of Eli Pariser on HardBall discussing the ad (for those interested - I haven't seen it).

I take their comments at face value - because it's the simplest explanation; I guess you don't. Oh well.

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who can't resist beating a dead horse sometimes...)
New Probably should
I don't think they were trying to being nice with the ad or make any claims about how nice they are in general. Just that claiming someone is a traitor is a line they chose to get close to, but not cross. I do think they knew some people would think they crossed that line, but were willing to gamble that more voters would side with them. Not a good gamble to take in this environment.

I wasn't trying to change your opinion, I still think a majority of people don't think of traitor when they use the word betray.

Your flawed logic aside, I don't think most people who think the moveon.org ad called the general a traitor didn't have anything other than a gut feeling.

And I can stop anytime I want.
Seamus
     BS - straight up. - (bepatient) - (24)
         Quoting from definitions "1: ...", commingling with "2: ..." - (CRConrad) - (23)
             I'm not co-mingling anything - (bepatient) - (22)
                 ... - (Another Scott) - (21)
                     Whatever -NT - (bepatient) - (20)
                         The rigidity of the true believer - (rcareaga) - (19)
                             Because on the point of traitor - (bepatient) - (18)
                                 And Rand's first (main?) point: On all those other points... - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                     My opinion is not incorrect. - (bepatient) - (4)
                                         And you've never, ever, over the years claimed... - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                             Well sorry then - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                 Echo much? Yeah, that's exactly what I fucking well *said*. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                     Well hu-freakin-zah for you. -NT - (bepatient)
                                 Because on the point of traitor you are not correct - (Seamus) - (1)
                                     Yes, we are at an impasse. -NT - (bepatient)
                                 This is what bugs me about this whole mess - (Seamus) - (9)
                                     Who is the "us" - (bepatient) - (8)
                                         You are making my point by admitting that - (Seamus) - (7)
                                             No. - (bepatient) - (6)
                                                 Yes you are. You are saying there is only one to way to - (Seamus) - (5)
                                                     No again - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                         And you keep missing - (Seamus) - (3)
                                                             Then we should stop - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                 Horse's mouth. - (Another Scott)
                                                                 Probably should - (Seamus)

Spork - the other white utensil.
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