All that is needed

Post #289,477 by bepatient 7/20/07 10:25:01 AM Reply	All that is needed is for the opposition to grow some stones. This is the same argument made 30 years ago..needs to be legally challenged and defeated by the D controlled legislative branch so we don't see it again. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #289,534 by rcareaga 7/20/07 8:52:23 PM Reply	All that is needed? Guillotines would be a start What Next For the Bush/Cheney Administration? Maybe Guillotines! Wonkette [link\|http://wonkette.com/politics/dept%27-of-revolution-for-dummies/what-next-for-the-bushcheney-administration-maybe-guillotines-280860.php\|weighs in:] They're immune to all laws, they can throw you in the gulag for any reason at all, and they can lock up all your money and property if you're "impeding" whatever crazed satanic bullshit they\ufffdre doing now or in the future. So what can Congress or the Military or you, the hapless citizen, actually do to stop them? We\ufffdve consulted top historians and constitutional scholars—the ones that came up on the first page of the Google search, anyway—and they\ufffdve got some fun advice for America. There follows a brief discussion of alternatives: "inherent contempt" invoked by Congress, military intervention, looting and burning of elected officials' DC homes to signal popular disapprobation, non-cooperation of federal employees in enforcing martial law. Myself, I like the guillotine option at this point. Seriously: Beep's sunny "all that is needed" prescription notwithstanding (it is not to be wondered at that his take on Watergate remains in 2007 approximately as sophisticated as it was from the—fifth? sixth?—grades), it's not just a matter of "the opposition [needing] to grow some stones." Unless, of course, he means the Republican opposition in the House and Senate? This summer's Democratic majority in Congress, unlike 1974's, is razor-thin, and there is little sign of spine among the Republicans in either house. Where are today's Goldwater, Scott and Rhodes? No, today's zombie GOP shambles lockstep in fealty to the Dear Leader. The Cult of Personality trumps allegiance to the ancient prerogatives of Congress (what's that you say? The Constitution? Oh, dear boy!), and party solidarity will likely smother these last few spasms of the old Republic. If Bushco prevails in this, it's "game over" for the quaint little North American 18th century experiment in self-government. Put a fucking fork in it. I have suspected since the last election that the final two years of the junta would surpass in wickedness, depravity and disaster all that had gone before. I don't count myself among those predicting a state of emergency and cancellation of the 2008 elections hard upon a "Reichstag fire," but should such a thing come to pass I feel confident that IWT will be the logical first stop to learn from Bill P why it's no biggie. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #289,548 by bepatient 7/20/07 9:52:43 PM Reply	It needs to be put to due process. Bush's legal team has given their OPINION. Its the duty of congress (and they don't need 60%...just that razor thin majority") to force this into the Courts. Of course, that means that they will have to do SOMETHING other than pass non binding resolutions and >threaten< contempt. If they don't...well maybe its time for this Republic to die. It will CERTAINLY be time to vote out every incumbent in federal service. I like beer anyway. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #289,571 by JayMehaffey 7/21/07 12:50:46 PM Reply	That would be a step in the right direction Bush's legal team has given their OPINION. Its the duty of congress (and they don't need 60%...just that razor thin majority") to force this into the Courts. Of course, that means that they will have to do SOMETHING other than pass non binding resolutions and >threaten< contempt. That would be a step in the right direction, but a far to slow one. Taking it to court now will mean Bush can simply run out the clock. Congress really needs to take a step towards impeachment. Jay
Post #289,601 by Simon_Jester 7/22/07 8:24:25 AM Reply	I'm not sure the Democrats want that anymore though.... Bush is extending the powers of the Presidency beyond the Constitution or anything else (people don't even have to APPEAR before Congress) that attempts reign in the Presidency will just limit Hillary's power in office. When the Clinton were in office, they -- Were investigated and had to REINSTATE the travelgate people (who were at-will). That won't happen again. Had to testify before Congress. That won't happen again. Had to open up notes about meeting and advice they received about Health Care Regulation. That won't happen again. Hell, Congress even investigated the Marc Rich pardons, putting Libby on the stand. Congess won't be able to investigate Pardons again. (and it continues) ... With Hillary and a positive Congress (which is looking more and more likely by the day), they'll be able to do ANYTHING. (Hell, they'll even get to claim that we're "Fighting the War on Terror"). Ya gotta thank the Republican party for this one. They're handing it to them on a silver platter.
Post #289,602 by bepatient 7/22/07 9:06:10 AM Reply	You mean to tell me... ...that its possible that the Democrats are equally as power hungry as the current junta? and when in power will use all the exact same tactics to resist their opposition? What a revelation to me! [image\|/forums/images/warning.png\|0\|This is sarcasm...] Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #289,745 by Simon_Jester 7/24/07 10:50:37 PM Reply	chuckle... ...that its possible that the Democrats are equally as power hungry as the current junta? I think we're making progress. You didn't say the Democrats where MORE power hungry than the current junta.
Post #289,753 by bepatient 7/25/07 7:06:30 AM Reply	Re: chuckle... I think we're making progress. are we? Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #289,666 by Silverlock 7/23/07 10:07:17 AM Reply	The don't need 60%? I call [link\|http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/obstruct-this-by-digby-just-in-case.html\|bullshit] ----------------------------------------- Atheism is a religion in the same sense that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Post #289,717 by bepatient 7/24/07 7:18:03 AM Reply	They don't [link\|http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Contempt_of_Congress\|http://www.law.corne...tempt_of_Congress] And how do you establish jurisdiction? In the Courts. Your link was on procedural voting. There is no need for that. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #289,720 by Silverlock 7/24/07 8:53:28 AM Reply	Remember the point Bill Impeachment. Votes. Filibuster. ----------------------------------------- Atheism is a religion in the same sense that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Post #289,763 by bepatient 7/25/07 9:32:54 AM Reply	Re: Remember the point Bill Not an impeachment vote. Its a filing of criminal charges instead of being nice about it and citing Harriet Meirs with criminal contempt. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #289,792 by Simon_Jester 7/25/07 10:08:11 PM Reply	??? I thought Congress was [link\|http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1647157,00.html\|citing Miers] with contempt was a criminal charge. Now it goes to Congress for the full vote. Once voted there (probably in September), if it passes, it goes to the executive branch who are supposed to then execute it. The kewl part is, this will set precidence for the next President. If Bush doesn't move on it, it'll give carte-blanc to Hillary not to move on anything should a Republican majority get voted into Congress.
Post #289,807 by Ashton 7/26/07 5:50:15 AM Reply	Jury-nullification of the Constitution, then? Except it's not a jury. Aren't there several labels for an officially dysfunctional successor to a 'government'? This is beginning to smell like impending Dynastic succession, with each election-skit arrogating more autocratic power to the better-armed ... How then shall the various sub-species of cops decide to handle any arrest request? (or to decide Whose request to obey, especially if there are bigger armor-piercing bullets in Cheney's bunker and that famous walk-in safe.) While our chosen form of disintegration may supply some amusement to the world, it would have to be pretty rollicking, I'd think - to come close to atoning for the heaped dead burned bodies to date. (Will the non-Revolution be televised?) Love. It.
Post #289,826 by bepatient 7/26/07 10:59:31 AM Reply	She was asked to come. The contempt is thus one of a civil order. If the Democrats want this to be a showdown they need to level CRIMINAL charges against the players and have a grand jury placed. The way they are doing it now won't ever be resolved. And I've a feeling they don't really want it resolved...given the likelihood that they will control the exec branch in 18 months. My read is most here think that the abuse is somehow limited to this administration...this slippery slope has been in place for more than 30 years... But Hillary will make it better, won't she. [image\|/forums/images/warning.png\|0\|This is sarcasm...] Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #289,871 by Simon_Jester 7/27/07 12:09:50 AM 7/27/07 12:12:18 AM Reply	While I don't disagree on whether or not Democrats really want this done or not (and I note that every Republican voted AGAINST the charge)... I thought regardless of whether crimainal or civil charges are filed, that the charges had to come from the House as a whole rather than just a sub-committee. But I could be wrong. [on edit] Isn't asked to come incorrect? Wasn't she subpoenaed? (You mean you don't have to show if you're subpoenaed?) Edited by Simon_Jester July 27, 2007, 12:12:18 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #289,545 by Simon_Jester 7/20/07 9:35:21 PM Reply	Actually I agree. If the democrats don't push this, Republicans will when Hillary tries it in a few years. Time to nip this one in the bud.

Welcome to IWETHEY!