Post #287,233
6/18/07 3:00:47 PM
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On the last one...
How many people get (read "can afford) to buy a BMW? Enough for BMW to make a lot of money. The point I was trying to make was, not everyone should have a low-cost-at-the-expense-of-everything-else business model. The airlines don't have to be run as badly as they are (from a customer-service perspective). (Yes, I know about [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braniff_Airways|Braniff] and others who tried a full-service model and failed.) Flying used to be fun - there's no reason why it can't be again. I know you know more about this industry than I ever will. I'm relating my experiences and what seems to make sense based on what I've read. Maybe deregulated airlines are a lost cause; maybe national flag carriers are a lost cause too. I don't know. All I do know is that I and many other people I know refuse to fly unless we have to. Anything less than ~ 600 miles, I'll drive unless it's a one day trip. It's much cheaper, and it's often a wash in the amount of time required (security, delays, changing planes, etc., etc.). They're going backwards on lots of [link|http://www.transtats.bts.gov/HomeDrillChart.asp|statistics] that matter to people flying, and even if part/most/all of it is the FAA's fault, they need to change the way they do business because what they're doing is pissing off a lot of people. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #287,235
6/18/07 3:15:06 PM
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in agreement sort of
I just extended my driving range to 800 miles. There is a two fold problem. One is customer service. When you have had your pay sliced continously you either leave or dont give a rats ass about being nice to customers. You are serving a lot more and getting paid a lot less. The parts and serviceability is a separate issue. You outsource the mechanic work to people who are paid considerably less than in house mechanics and are often the same folks you laid off during the bankrupcy. They have a vested interest in work to rule. Also they will attempt to meet FAA guidelines to the nth degree and having the manager of the airline screaming at them doesnt work like it used to.
On the other hand one can fly to most destinations in the US very cheaply. If you are going from NY to Seattle check out amtrack prices. Even the hound will have a hard time to match the fares the airlines offer. So speed and low price is what makes people want to fly. Lousy CS and delays are part of that price.
thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #287,239
6/18/07 4:25:58 PM
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Well said.
Maybe BP can chime in on what it "really" costs, but I doubt that people would change their plans if it cost 10-30% more on a flight if it got them higher on-time percentages and better service. People are still buying first-class tickets and they're still putting up with delays and cancellations like the rest of us, and the planes are full, so it's not just the low ticket price that's causing the problems.
People don't fly as much if the price doubles, but small percentage changes usually are in the noise. E.g. gasoline has gone up a lot but people aren't changing their driving habits much.
Hypothetical e.g. DCA to ATL on July 9, returning July 13: Round trip, nonstop, coach $275 to $464 per person, with most of them in the $275 - $295 per person range. Why can't they make money at that fare? Business/First Class is $658 to $768 for the same conditions. (All on Travelocity.) (No, I'm not going to be taking such a trip, it's just an example. :-) United's fares are nuts - the flights go through Chicago and they're $439 to $1064 for Coach!
I'm in whole-hearted agreement that management (or more often the corporation) usually eventually reaps what they sow when it comes to employee compensation and so forth.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #287,237
6/18/07 3:36:22 PM
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Unfortunately
there is a large discrepancy between what people want and what can be provided at anything approaching affordable.
There is no doubt that the majors could do better...but one of the key reasons people seem happier with southwest is because they EXPECT crappy service from them...but seem to expect more from the others without actually expecting to pay for it.
Security. Sucks yes...but at this point I'm back to arriving 1 hr before flight time and making my flights without much of an issue. Thats roughly the same as pre-9/11.
My fly/drive is 5 hours...roughly 300 miles.
Personally, I think the airlines should charge a min fare based on per seat variable cost. This will mean that the price is at least loosely based on what it costs them to operate. Unfortunately, that would also mean that I would not be able to afford to see my parents on a regular basis, as I wouldn't be able to afford the flights.
ATC needs to be overhauled and the airlines need to assist in this by volunteering to reduce frequency, which is essentially what they agreed to do at O'Hare to limit congestion and delays.
Summer weather is summer weather, though...and delays from April to October WILL happen, no matter what. [link|http://weather.unisys.com/images/sat_sfc_map_loop.html|Somewhere there is a thunderstorm screwing up somebody's flight.]
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #287,240
6/18/07 4:27:19 PM
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Re: roughly the same as pre-9/11.
Security. Sucks yes...but at this point I'm back to arriving 1 hr before flight time and making my flights without much of an issue. Thats roughly the same as pre-9/11.
B.S. You need really broad definitions of "roughly" to make that comment work. I've personally gotten my dad and his bags on an airplane after having arrived at the airport 10 minutes prior to departure. *That* was pre-9/11. Also, pre-9/11, I could pull 22T up to the gate with a passenger and bags and put them directly on a commercial carrier. *That* was also pre-9/11. Commercial air travel will never again be "roughly pre-9/11"-esque.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #287,243
6/18/07 4:33:15 PM
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True enough
if you have to check bags you aren't going to be able to do that 10 minute sprint anymore.
But I arrived with check-on luggage only last week 25 minutes prior to flight and wasn't breathing heavy when I sat down on the plane. I had checked in prior to leaving for the airport and midday there was little in the way of lines at security.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #287,314
6/19/07 12:46:58 PM
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I think that varies with location.
If you're standing in line for security screening at FWA or LAX 20 minutes before the flight departs, you don't get on the airplane period.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #287,317
6/19/07 1:04:39 PM
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or ATL, the other day the had the queue going outside the
terminal with a 2-3 hour wait for screening.
thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #287,371
6/19/07 11:40:43 PM
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I got out pretty quick last time
and I was running VERY late for the flight.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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