Nearly 10% of straight men have sex with other men?

Post #268,052 by JayMehaffey 9/19/06 1:17:53 PM Reply	Nearly 10% of straight men have sex with other men? [link\|http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/15550798.htm\|Sun Herald] Almost 10 percent of men who say they're straight also happen to be having sex with men, according to a new study, one of the largest ever to specifically address "down-low" behavior. The study, based out of New York City, found that most of the down-low men did not use condoms and that 70 percent were married. Researchers said they hoped their report would change the way doctors asked patients about their sexual behavior. I see three possibilities here. First, I'm more out of touch then I thought, second, New York is even futher bent then I thought, or third that statistic is rather inflated. Personally I'm betting on the third, but even if it is infalted it is interesting. On the other hand, I had to look up "[link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down-low\|down-low]" to really get a sense for the article, which argues for the first. Probably the most interesting point is that this is more common among recent immigrants and african-americans, two sub-cultures with even greater bias against homosexuals then the general public. Showing that basic human drives are far more consistant across populations then most people think, but how those drives are talked about and treated culturally varies widely. Jay
Post #268,053 by jake123 9/19/06 1:25:46 PM Reply	That number makes a lot of sense the best estimates of the frequency of homosexuality is 10%, and far more men are in the closet than out; out gays are a tiny fraction of the entire homosexual population. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #268,057 by boxley 9/19/06 1:56:07 PM Reply	clueby4 if a man has sex with another man he is not straight as to the percentage I wouldnt know how to address that. The questioning was done in NYC a strange place in itself. If the same question was asked in bumfuck nebraska that same percentage may be screwing cattle. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,082 by static 9/19/06 6:43:03 PM Reply	It's a complex topic. I had reasons to do some research in this area not so long ago. I personally know men who insist they're straight and always have been, yet they've had gay sex. I think that to many people, sexual identity is only partially associated with sexual practices. This is what gives rise to gays who 'won't come out of the closet', amongst other things. And then there is the headspace of sexuality versus the physical needs of sexuality. This is where you might have a man who will turn his head at pretty girls, would stare at boobs all day long, yet will get his rocks off in the toilets with another man. Western society has quite a number of hangups about sex, you might have noticed. Wade. "Insert crowbar. Apply force."
Post #268,086 by bionerd 9/19/06 6:53:03 PM Reply	Makes sense to me At the conference I attended last week the speaker spent a lot of time talking about how we become male or female. In mammals, the default sex is female. We all start out female, even with XY chromosomes. Male and female gender is not as simple as XX=girl or XY=boy. There are many genes involved, and despite common beliefs or legal concepts, the sexuality of the body and brain exist on a continuum. Early on in embryogenisis, they Sry gene on the Y chromosome is turned on, which starts the development of the testes, which in turn produces testosterone, which plays a leading role in the development of male characterists and male/female differences. But it's not a toggle switch. Because the development of gender and sexuality is on a continuum, we end up with transexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals, and everything in between. So, individuals can be genetically and hormonally 1)clearly male, 2)clearly female, or 3)anywhere in between. 1 in 100 births have mildly deformed genitalia. 1 in 4000 have ambiguous genitalia which require surgery to direct the person towards one sex or another. Our laws and our society assume everyone is cleary male or female. But this binary law mindset simply isnt true. I'm not surprised some "straight men" are having sex with other men.
Post #268,093 by Andrew Grygus 9/19/06 8:13:59 PM Reply	So then, if female is the default condition . . . . . and it takes some doing to become male, then women are failed men, right? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #268,118 by bionerd 9/20/06 6:26:37 AM Reply	Hmmm... I need to respond to that I'm just not sure what to say at the moment. Let me get back to you after my coffee.
Post #268,124 by Meerkat 9/20/06 7:04:24 AM Reply	Oh that's easy... ...it has to mean that woman is the perfect state of humankind, and men are just an abberation :-) Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #268,125 by bionerd 9/20/06 7:07:06 AM 9/20/06 7:07:54 AM Reply	Thank you. That's exactly what I was thinking. You said it so eloquently I dont even need to elaborate! So, take THAT, Andrew! Edited by bionerd Sept. 20, 2006, 07:07:54 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #268,127 by broomberg 9/20/06 8:06:17 AM Reply	Traitor
Post #268,148 by Andrew Grygus 9/20/06 1:04:10 PM Reply	No, it just means women are the raw material . . . . . out of which men are made. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #268,170 by bionerd 9/20/06 4:36:03 PM Reply	Nope. You have it backwards In the bible, Eve was created from Adam's rib, making Eve and all women the subordinate gender. But along comes science and shows just the opposite to be true! All men actually arise from women. So, following biblical logic, MEN are the inferior gender. Without an X chromosome, there would be no males. You need to bow before me and thank me for your mere existence. G'head. I'm waiting.
Post #268,197 by Andrew Grygus 9/20/06 11:03:14 PM Reply	Biblical logic? Are we talking oxymorons here? Well lets follow that "logic" anyway. You women provide us with such lousy non-durable raw material and then ask to be worshiped for it? Who do you think you are? Microsoft? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #268,207 by bionerd 9/21/06 6:24:22 AM Reply	Ok. Good one. You win. This time.
Post #268,260 by Ashton 9/21/06 4:12:45 PM Reply	Quitter! The 'raw material' has proved to be durable and efficient (why.. it can even reproduce; only fools and men take the backs off of watches, frequently ruining same (What's the male/female ratio on the recipients of Darwin Awards, again?) ;^> Then there's Home Depot - Stop #1 for "fixing" things. Stop #2: when you call in a Pro and pay even more to fix "the repair".
Post #268,263 by bionerd 9/21/06 4:18:38 PM Reply	Not a Quitter!! Pacing myself! I need to save my energy for the really good battles with Andrew. You have to admit, his crack about Microsoft was pretty good. I conceded to that. It keeps his ego intact if I throw him a bone every once in a while. :-)
Post #268,271 by Ashton 9/21/06 5:16:53 PM Reply	Ahh.. {whew} wink wink, nudge Carrion, then Poisonally, I think that this One Party with Two Right Wings, which we call a patriarchy -- has finally brought the entire planet to the brink of extinction, for most if-not-all species. Whatever the excesses of a matriarchy (such histories always having been written by the men who blew them away; usually in Gawd's Name) - it. simply. could. Not. possibly. do. worse! (a female Popess would know All about, "go forth and multiply forever, you cow".) I mean.. "destroying planets" is a perpetual male hard-on; still, that only gets to be acted out Once! Per planet. ..Except! in all those Popular re-runs on DVDs, games, paint-ball orgies, hunting of chained-up animals Cheney-style (putting the larger heads on walls). 'Course there's always the occasional Lovely Ann Coulter wind-up doll, demonstrating that a woman "Can be more like a man". That exception thing? or just a childhood spent fending off uncles with guns and no condoms (?) Male wet-dreams are frequently about Blowing Things/Creatures Up. Why, pop-culture's video-games and 'Action' flics alone, are a significant part of the Grossest of NP$ --and-- these flics all Have The Same Plot! Hmmmm Rest case. You Go, girl(s) ---> ;^>
Post #268,301 by Andrew Grygus 9/21/06 10:33:07 PM 9/21/06 10:45:48 PM Reply	Now we know, Ashton, that you're one of those . . . . . Goddess worshipers and I got news for you. Women are just as bad as men but in a different, generally more personal and manipulative way. They look innocent because their main MO is to use men to do their dirty work and heavy lifting, generally by implication of sexual favors which may, or often may not, actually be delivered. And incidentally, on average, they're just as likely to be dissappointing at sex as men are. Now according to some historical theories, the Mediterranean region was Goddess territory (and pretty hard on men). European invaders are blamed for disrupting a Feminist paradise by imposing this Patriarchial crap by force of arms. This is not supported by Central and Northern European mythology, which describes at length the war between the Aesir and the Vanir (the War between Men and Women), and its conclusion as a draw and resulting truce. What makes sense is that the Medeterranean region was extreme Goddess territory. The invading Europeans brought the concept of a male diety and the local men, feeling repressed, took off with the idea and carried it to extremes. In Europe the situation remained equalized until late Christioan times. Mediterranean merchants during the Renaisance were stunned that doing business in Germany and Poland meant dealing with powerful women equally as with powerful men. Of course, Mediterranean Christianity did it's best to quash this situation. In North Africa, European invaders looped around and took Egypt from the south just before historic times. The Europeans applied the same methods they applied in India. Take over management with as little disruption of the infrastructure as possible (how different from the Semitic "slaughter every living thing except rapable girls 12 and younger - kill them when they wear out" method). Egypt continued for the next 3000 years or so with a double religion. The Vanir (Isis / Osiris) and the Aesir (Horrus-Ra / Hathor). The priests tried for 3000 years to merge the two without success, but they got along. While neither the Matriarchy nor the Patriarchy make sense, the give and take between the Aesir and Vanir does. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx] Edited by Andrew Grygus Sept. 21, 2006, 10:45:48 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #268,314 by Ashton 9/22/06 1:38:23 AM Reply	First, we must learn to eschew obfuscation Well, we have shards of the mythology - is All. What I think is - there used to be a few Wise people around, most eras. 'Sages'. (Hypatia was one - who was also female) Today what we have is the homogenized puerile businessman. And few noticing the lack. Surely as good as any explanation for - transistors? AND-yet: the current rise of superstition too. I wot. Of course - imagining that there Must be a 'War' of 'Opposites' is about as basic as low-grade illusion gets. And we were talking about a continuum of attributes - not opposites. (Those 'feminine wiles' are so predictable a survival insurance as not even to be remarkable.) Obv necessity for reproduction triumphs over idiotic ideas of any sustainable warring of pure factions, we see. What we lack today (also) is, any credible description of day-day life with females dominant in the social/political decisions. All we get are suppositions from this milieu. No bios. But that's not critical, anyway. So.. Of course I don't imagine a 'matriarchy' to be some magnificent either/or 'solution'! - this is not called, 'The World of Duality' just to coin a cute phrase. Thus 'solutions' there aren't, at present levels of consciousness. What I said was: the male polarity has near-extinguished the whole damn playing field. So via merely the same stupid polarized game which is ~all we know how to play, yet: the women Cannot do worse than this record. I go with Albert E's fine statement about 'scale', because it makes sense only metaphysically ~ "problems created at one level of thinking cannot be solved at that same level" (of thinking.) Yesss. We haven't 'risen' much farther than the cave entrance, ever since biased liars began writing down our His-tory. Instituting a matriarchy wouldn't guarantee any better results. It would have one Good Thing going for it, though: It seems that a Shock has to be administered, ever to get a person / or a bunch of people to awaken a bit, from the daily torpor and routine. The entire faux-religio besotted planetary population clearly Needs a Shock, a very Large one - if we are ever to break this default priesthood shell-game and its horrifyingly predictable produce: endless BS wars about Mine's Bigger. ie both Patri- and Matri- suck, just as the magnetic monad is a meaningless concept. But a huge Change in daily habits - just might.. get the species to grow up; barely beat the self-immolation we're currently pining for and rushing towards. It's a chance. Shocks are indubitably enroute - why should not one of them produce something like 'progress'. Too? Pass the baton - effete wimps with big bombs. "I am impatient with stupidity.. My people have learned to live without it." -- Klaatu, speaking to a pol in Wash DC, The Day the Earth Stood Still We have to take our cues from imaginary characters - just as so many on the planet already do...
Post #268,323 by bionerd 9/22/06 10:08:27 AM Reply	Head of steam starting Do you know why women are manipulative? Because generally, we have no power. Throughout time we have been squashed,devalued, oppressed and villianized. I quess we have Eve to thank for that. She should've never eaten that apple and damned humanity for all eternity. Ignoring that for a moment, women have some very good ideas and agendas, you know, and heck, most of the time they dont even involve blowing each other up. So we manipulate a little to put our agendas into motion. That's not a bad thing. It's a brillant thing. A survival mechanism. And if all it takes to put our agendas into motion is a little sex, then hooray for us! Stop thinking with your dicks for 5 minutes and maybe you wont be so easily manipulated. And what is sex anyway? Deep down, it ensures the continuation of our species, the same species men are hell bent on blowing up. Get your priorities straight. Either keep the human race going or destroy it. Make up your minds! If the sex is generally disappointing, something is not right. Why would men be manipulated by something that disappoints? Suckers. Sex motivates because, when done correctly, it is spectacular. Powerful stuff. It makes the world go round. Ash is right. Women may not do a better job, but we certainly couldnt do any worse. Imagine if we harnessed all this animosity between the sexes and used it for good instead of evil. If we combined our strengths and attributes... well, what a wonderful world it could be.
Post #268,324 by boxley 9/22/06 10:14:23 AM Reply	what do apaches, afhgani and berbers have in common? men do the capturing and women do the torture. That is why men are in charge, because although we are stupid we are not by nature cruel. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,325 by pwhysall 9/22/06 10:23:50 AM Reply	Bollocks, Box. Not worth deconstructing. But transparently crap. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator]
Post #268,328 by bionerd 9/22/06 11:02:34 AM Reply	Double bullocks. Hitler Genghis Khan Saddam Hussein Osama Bin Laden Jeffery Dahmer Ted Bundy Charles Manson The Spanish Iquisition Tell me again that men arent cruel by nature. Much more so than women.
Post #268,330 by boxley 9/22/06 11:10:09 AM Reply	they all had mothers that taught them young :-) Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,332 by Andrew Grygus 9/22/06 11:42:22 AM Reply	Low blow, Box, low blow :-) [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #268,329 by Andrew Grygus 9/22/06 11:08:01 AM Reply	Oh, you're steaming for naught I don't disagree with you. Saying one sex is inherently superior to the other is, however, false. Men and women are really pretty much the same thing, same characteristics different enphasis, and both have a full repertory of flaws and shortcomings. Considering, though, our roots in the animal world, bloody of tooth, claw and horn, this is to be expected and we're really not doing as badly as we might. As for disappointing sex, yes, it happens to both sexes. It isn't automatically good, it has to be, in your words, "done correctly". And the definition of "correctly" has to be compatible between two people. Sex is no longer a mechanic for reproduction, it's a social binding and social things are very complex. Many women do fail to understand just how intense the sex drive is in men, particularly younger men. For a young man it's often a real effort just to maintain sanity. That's why it's so easy for woman to manipulate them. This is natures plan, to keep males fighting each other and killing each other so the "most fit" will hoard the women and propegate the species. To nature, there's no need for women to have any power at all. For better or for worse, since the "Eve-apple event" (or it's scientific equivalent), we are no longer entirely in nature's realm and nature's definition of "most fit" doesn't fit well. Nature's plan has becomes problematic and needs to be subverted. Much of it has been - but more remains to be done. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #268,340 by bionerd 9/22/06 12:13:44 PM Reply	I'm not steaming that much Just feeling argumentative. You want a piece of me?
Post #268,501 by tuberculosis 9/23/06 10:50:59 PM 9/23/06 10:51:56 PM Reply	Dup ignore [link\|http://www.blackbagops.net\|Black Bag Operations Log] [link\|http://www.objectiveclips.com\|Artificial Intelligence] [link\|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html\|Scrutinizer] Edited by tuberculosis Sept. 23, 2006, 10:51:56 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #268,502 by tuberculosis 9/23/06 10:51:21 PM Reply	Which piece are you offering? Heh. [link\|http://www.blackbagops.net\|Black Bag Operations Log] [link\|http://www.objectiveclips.com\|Artificial Intelligence] [link\|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html\|Scrutinizer]
Post #268,535 by bionerd 9/24/06 4:52:09 PM Reply	You know what piece you're gonna get. My foot right up that smart ass of yours.
Post #268,628 by n3jja 9/25/06 12:32:46 PM Reply	kinky.....
Post #268,334 by inthane-chan 9/22/06 11:55:30 AM Reply	Re: Head of steam starting Ignoring that for a moment, women have some very good ideas and agendas, you know, and heck, most of the time they dont even involve blowing each other up. Just some very intense negotiations every twenty-eight days, no? ;) Odoru aho ni miru aho! Onaji aho nara odoranya son son!
Post #268,339 by bionerd 9/22/06 12:12:36 PM Reply	That's not blowing things up That's gouging eyes out.
Post #268,177 by Ashton 9/20/06 8:58:25 PM Reply	Continuum: Yes. Puritan digital-think: No. Indeed, hermaphrodites throughout history etc. etc. Digital-think kills. The species could certainly 'handle' the continuum model, focus much more upon emotional empathy for all - thus remove the inculcated fears of the outliers, experienced all throughout the post-corporate ie Big-religion societies. Why, homo-sap could become freed of the regular Religio-War process! - But the Priest-class has always conflated gender/sex/neural-related with.. Sin/Purity and the necessity of asking >them< for 'Authoritative Rulez'. Sex-control is surely the root-source of Priestly power, that which got us where we are today -- while inculcating virgin/whore daily, amateur judgmentalism, all over the fucking planet. (IMO) Popes, Mullahs, Tee-Vee-angelists will differ with this analysis, of course, but then - they have much to lose, no matter how much the many have to gain. Pace pace O mio Dionysius [Exiguus - aka Dennis the Little] But Hey! - at least he was also a mathematician, while whiling away his hours writing Authoritative stuff to cow the masses and er, Masses - I heard.

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