crock o sommat

Post #263,846 by boxley 8/4/06 10:54:30 PM Reply	crock o sommat A new set of numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics actually shows solid growth in employment in relatively higher -paying occupations including construction workers, health-care professionals, business managers, and teachers, construction waqes have fallen due to illegal immegrants, locally from $15 per hour for carpenters to $10. Health care proffesoinals have taken huge hits because of outsourcing to contractors. Average wage for LPN in Florida was 8-10 an hour down from 15 a few years ago. Business managers, also a hard hit group pay wise, collapsing the management layers eliminated a lot of them and the rest get paid less. Teachers? What is the mantra nation wide "underpaid overworked"crapaud my friend. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #263,858 by bepatient 8/5/06 1:54:00 AM Reply	doesn't jibe with the figures your assertions cannot be true "en masse" or the average wage figure would be taking a serious dive, which it isn't. The article says, and I agree, that single cases where someone goes out long term or must accept a lower paying job after a loss are there..but that is NOT the majority case otherwise there would be support for that in the loss of average wage..and that hasn't occurred. And the exact opposite case for healthcare workers is going on here. There is a severe shortage of qualified workers. RN wages are up substantially and the contractors are being added to the workforce to spell the workers already there. Met a man in Ireland made his living on importing nurses because of this shortage in the US. Aint alot of mex's in NJ to offset contractor pay...and they are building one hell of alot of houses around here. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,867 by Another Scott 8/5/06 9:52:34 AM Reply	It's the nature of averages... By using the Median (half above, half below) some of the problems with "averages" can be minimized. But problems exist none-the-less. There's a lot of data at the Bureau of Labor Statistics site that can give a better picture of what's going on than the overall number. For example, the [link\|http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/dsrv?nc\|National Compensation Survey] pages let you construct tables of values for the past few years. It shows that top level ("Level 14") mathematicians and computer scientists (occupation 07000) had a drop in average (I assume these are means and not medians, but I can't find a clear statement about that) wages since 2002: September 1997: $47.58 December 1998: $49.86 September 1999: $51.82 July 2000: $56.34 January 2001: $61.36 July 2002: $67.20 July 2003: $58.13 July 2004: $56.92 yet the average for all 07000 jobs in all levels rose continuously from $26.96 to $35.07 over that same time period. There can be huge differences in wages over time for some occupations in some areas. E.g. #33438 State : Georgia Area : Atlanta, GA Occupation : Food counter, fountain and related occupations Level : Overall occupation average (no work level) October 1997: $7.00 No data for 1998 January 1999: $5.83 August 1999: $5.87 January 2000: $6.32 January 2001: $7.43 No data for 2002 January 2003: $8.29 December 2003: $7.10 No data for 2004 January 2005: $6.37 Bottom line: Don't put too much stock in a single national number and attempt to correlate it with what's happening in your area. Also, increasing wages for higher level employees can mask stagnant or falling wages for entry level employees. There's probably enough data at the BLS to determine whether wages in a particular occupation at a particular skill level have risen or fallen since the late 1990s, but you'll probably have to build the tables yourself. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #263,869 by bepatient 8/5/06 11:59:11 AM Reply	Same error both sides The question is about the new jobs...and everyone's contention is that they are all fry-cooks. Mean or median...if it was as they contend...would both fall precipitously. Its not happening. I'm getting headhunter calls for management level, high paying jobs. LOTS of calls. My old employer is hiring..completely new job growth...jobs from 60-100k. I'm continually told that this CAN'T be the case because all the new jobs created in this economy are low paying jobs. The data and my experience contradict that assertion. Is this to say, that in this population that is largely IT driven, that this situation in IT related jobs is different? I find that VERY likely and much easier to believe. Especially considering that the bubble artificially inflated the pay of some of these classifications of jobs. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,889 by broomberg 8/5/06 5:44:54 PM Reply	Both sides are correct Entry level / general tech / few day trainable skill jobs are shrinking. The VERY entry level clerical jobs are automated out of existance. I've been doing that for years, which means fewer people get a lot more work done. I've just spend 90 minutes writing a Perl script that automates 2 full time jobs out of existance. Yup, I'm scum. Entry level factory jobs are either mechanized or moved off-shore. Or both. So, there are more people available at that level, which depresses wages for anyone left still employed. Executive / management / very specialized skillset demands are growing. The pool of people that reach this level seems stagnant, which means really good people are always in demand and command a serious salary.

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