Yes, but it SHOULD be legal!

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Post #244,978

by pwhysall

2/16/06 12:49:08 PM

Yes, but it SHOULD be legal!

If I want to kill someone with a hammer, and that person wants to be killed with a hammer, the "illegality" of that act is impinging on my (and their) rights, right?

Post #245,040

by drewk

2/16/06 6:15:07 PM

One thing at a time

First, let's go back to the fact that your example of something that is illegal in a club is also illegal in your home, and so doesn't say a damn thing about the smoking issue.

Then we can branch this to discuss legalizing assisted suicide, which I support.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Peter's pub experiences will change - (ben_tilly) - (150) - Feb. 14, 2006, 09:57:31 PM EST

Works for me - (pwhysall) - (6) - Feb. 15, 2006, 01:45:14 AM EST

Toronto has had it for a couple of years - (lister) - (5) - Feb. 15, 2006, 12:13:48 PM EST

Come to Kingston - (jake123) - (4) - Feb. 15, 2006, 02:42:41 PM EST

Been there, far drive - (lister) - (3) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:11:18 PM EST

Well, let me know the next time you're coming through - (jake123) - (2) - Feb. 15, 2006, 07:07:02 PM EST

Doing both in June - (lister) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:01:41 AM EST

That'll probably be in Kingston - (jake123) - Feb. 16, 2006, 12:46:47 PM EST

Hurrah! Anything to reduce the evil weed. -NT - (warmachine) - Feb. 15, 2006, 02:32:31 AM EST

Next sins, in order: alcohol, seduction, evangelizing . . . -NT - (Ashton) - (140) - Feb. 15, 2006, 02:40:23 AM EST

Hey, I'm fine with people SMOKING tobacco... - (inthane-chan) - (139) - Feb. 15, 2006, 11:25:11 AM EST

Supply & Demand. - (imric) - (137) - Feb. 15, 2006, 12:05:41 PM EST

That doesn't work. - (admin) - (113) - Feb. 15, 2006, 12:29:44 PM EST

Same damned thing. - (imric) - (112) - Feb. 15, 2006, 01:39:09 PM EST

Two things are working against that. - (admin) - (62) - Feb. 15, 2006, 02:04:06 PM EST

For the record, yes - (drewk) - (50) - Feb. 15, 2006, 02:37:10 PM EST

Re: For the record, yes - (admin) - (49) - Feb. 15, 2006, 02:56:27 PM EST

Nanny state - (drewk) - (47) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:17:22 PM EST

Basic public health and safety isn't nannying. - (admin) - (38) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:27:39 PM EST

I'm reminded of an old saying - (drewk) - (37) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:41:09 PM EST

Actually in Helena... - (admin) - (31) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:28:16 PM EST

60% of all heart attacks are due to 2nd hand smoke? - (boxley) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:06:34 PM EST

Wait, I missed something - (drewk) - (18) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:09:19 PM EST

Dunno, why don't they? - (admin) - (17) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:17:37 PM EST

So they *do* exist - (drewk) - (16) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:35:39 PM EST

Re: So they *do* exist - (admin) - (15) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:52:36 PM EST

Why not? - (drewk) - (14) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:59:02 PM EST

Many times it easier to breathe - (jbrabeck) - (12) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:02:44 PM EST

So *you* would rather breathe smoke than hear whining - (drewk) - (11) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:10:47 PM EST

Hell no - (jbrabeck) - (10) - Feb. 16, 2006, 10:45:19 AM EST

And you'd create a drug war to make our existing one... - (ben_tilly) - (9) - Feb. 16, 2006, 10:57:50 AM EST

I didn't say make it illegal.... - (jbrabeck) - (8) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:06:43 AM EST

It's already cheaper to smuggle... - (ben_tilly) - (7) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:37:10 AM EST

now? I can mail order 4 cartons a month from Israel -NT - (boxley) - (6) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:40:31 AM EST

Now. - (jake123) - (5) - Feb. 16, 2006, 12:53:29 PM EST

Canada's taxes are higher than US taxes - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Feb. 16, 2006, 01:26:17 PM EST

do people around you go to Indian Smokeshops? - (boxley) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 01:29:19 PM EST

Not that I know of. -NT - (ben_tilly) - Feb. 16, 2006, 01:38:03 PM EST

Not true when it comes to smokes - (jake123) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 03:45:31 PM EST

Good to know. My impression was out of date. -NT - (ben_tilly) - Feb. 16, 2006, 05:05:46 PM EST

The restaurant was always busy before the ban. - (admin) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:03:03 PM EST

funny I dont even see a listing for that here - (boxley) - (9) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:10:17 PM EST

... - (admin) - (8) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:21:06 PM EST

doesnt mention second hand anything - (boxley) - (7) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:36:24 PM EST

Oh, right, because smoke magically only affects the smoker. - (admin) - (6) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:50:54 PM EST

That's new to me - (drewk) - (5) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:58:07 PM EST

Re: That's new to me - (admin) - (4) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:01:47 PM EST

Not at all the same - (drewk) - (3) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:09:40 PM EST

Uh, no. - (admin) - (2) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:14:52 PM EST

I'm the sophist? - (drewk) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:23:49 PM EST

Re: I'm the sophist? - (admin) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:32:25 PM EST

Ah.. It's-Good-for-You -- is Enough: OK, suppose we PROVED - (Ashton) - Feb. 15, 2006, 10:04:11 PM EST

I don't get cancer if you eat a Big Mac - (lister) - (4) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:49:22 PM EST

Right back at you. - (imric) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:12:23 PM EST

You do pay for his decrease in health - (bepatient) - (2) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:44:23 PM EST

<smack location=back_of_head /> -NT - (jb4) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 10:03:28 AM EST

Hey - (bepatient) - Feb. 16, 2006, 05:24:22 PM EST

On fire codes and such... - (Another Scott) - (7) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:31:28 PM EST

Insurance - (drewk) - (6) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:01:03 PM EST

Comes under the category of "reasonable" - (admin) - (4) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:13:46 PM EST

You just jumped the shark - (drewk) - (3) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:30:03 PM EST

WTF? - (admin) - (2) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:40:28 PM EST

Do you support random roadblocks? - (drewk) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:53:34 PM EST

No. - (admin) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:16:21 PM EST

That's too simplistic. - (Another Scott) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:17:41 PM EST

Beat me to it...Drook, what he said! -NT - (jb4) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:21:38 PM EST

I was poor, true. Desparate times DO require desparate - (imric) - (10) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:57:57 PM EST

Finally, a reasonable counter-suggestion - (admin) - (9) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:34:55 PM EST

How about peanuts? - (drewk) - (8) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:45:21 PM EST

Thats why you get pretzels on planes now. -NT - (bepatient) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:46:54 PM EST

I thought it was because the pretzels are cheaper. -NT - (Simon_Jester) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:33:16 PM EST

Already have "stink" restrictions in many places. - (jbrabeck) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:57:30 PM EST

They don't allow peanuts in the schools here. - (admin) - (4) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:58:18 PM EST

Not playing games, making a point - (drewk) - (3) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:07:36 PM EST

Re: Not playing games, making a point - (admin) - (2) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:18:51 PM EST

Those offended by the cartoons would say that's what matters - (drewk) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:28:23 PM EST

Shrug. It's all in your viewpoint. - (admin) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:34:26 PM EST

Capitalism is imperfect - (ben_tilly) - (48) - Feb. 15, 2006, 10:01:08 PM EST

Capitalism and libertarianism are orthogonal - (drewk) - (47) - Feb. 15, 2006, 10:12:03 PM EST

I wasn't saying what was right - (ben_tilly) - (46) - Feb. 15, 2006, 10:39:30 PM EST

Not my point - (drewk) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 10:49:46 PM EST

And completely orthogonal to mine - (ben_tilly) - Feb. 15, 2006, 11:02:42 PM EST

I am a moderate as a Libertarian - (imric) - (43) - Feb. 15, 2006, 11:11:48 PM EST

I'm not arguing for or against this change - (ben_tilly) - (42) - Feb. 15, 2006, 11:46:57 PM EST

"That can be a losing economic idea" - (imric) - (39) - Feb. 16, 2006, 07:23:11 AM EST

All society is groups forcing their choices on others - (pwhysall) - (33) - Feb. 16, 2006, 07:35:29 AM EST

:-) ObMythbusters aside. - (Another Scott) - Feb. 16, 2006, 07:52:46 AM EST

Thats why yer missus will be wearing a burka in 20 years -NT - (boxley) - Feb. 16, 2006, 08:35:20 AM EST

Not the same - (drewk) - (21) - Feb. 16, 2006, 08:59:33 AM EST

Re: Not the same - (pwhysall) - (20) - Feb. 16, 2006, 09:06:01 AM EST

So go find a place that doesn't allow smoking. - (imric) - (16) - Feb. 16, 2006, 09:13:31 AM EST

Overly simplistic answer - (jbrabeck) - (15) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:03:36 AM EST

If it doesn't go both ways, the 'reasoning' is faulty. - (imric) - (14) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:17:39 AM EST

I don't know why Georgia is different than NYC. - (ben_tilly) - (13) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:39:19 AM EST

Me neither. - (imric) - (12) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:44:43 AM EST

I have a strong suspicion that I know the answer - (ben_tilly) - (11) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:52:43 AM EST

*shrug* They choose their customer base. - (imric) - (10) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:59:14 AM EST

Do you have any idea how ironic this is? - (ben_tilly) - (9) - Feb. 16, 2006, 01:34:35 PM EST

Not at all - well, sort of. - (imric) - (8) - Feb. 16, 2006, 01:56:42 PM EST

The network effect WAS there. - (admin) - (5) - Feb. 16, 2006, 02:28:14 PM EST

So - - (imric) - (4) - Feb. 16, 2006, 02:57:48 PM EST

Refuse to see it all you want. - (admin) - (3) - Feb. 16, 2006, 03:09:56 PM EST

Of course that's the ONLY explanation, right? - (imric) - (2) - Feb. 16, 2006, 04:16:13 PM EST

Conservatism and risk are part of it. - (admin) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 04:54:37 PM EST

*shrug* -NT - (imric) - Feb. 16, 2006, 05:12:35 PM EST

I'm not interested in arguing this to the ground - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 05:10:36 PM EST

*smile* Sounds good. Me too. -NT - (imric) - Feb. 16, 2006, 05:15:54 PM EST

Try again - (drewk) - (2) - Feb. 16, 2006, 09:20:49 AM EST

Yes, but it SHOULD be legal! - (pwhysall) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 12:49:08 PM EST

One thing at a time - (drewk) - Feb. 16, 2006, 06:15:07 PM EST

Still avoiding it, huh. - (imric) - (8) - Feb. 16, 2006, 09:01:09 AM EST

You have a place. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 09:06:35 AM EST

Cr@p. - (imric) - Feb. 16, 2006, 09:11:17 AM EST

I'll play, briefly. - (Another Scott) - (5) - Feb. 16, 2006, 10:14:08 AM EST

And of course no employees smoke - (imric) - (4) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:19:53 AM EST

Heath and safety rules are inconvenient. - (Another Scott) - (3) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:47:16 AM EST

You don't mind if smokers do it in their own homes - (imric) - (2) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:51:40 AM EST

Smoking is an interesting case re: the health issues - (pwhysall) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 12:51:02 PM EST

Men of straw. - (imric) - Feb. 16, 2006, 01:12:39 PM EST

Your ifs are wrong. - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Feb. 16, 2006, 10:52:00 AM EST

Your facts are wrong - (imric) - (3) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:30:19 AM EST

Your example does not refute the assertion - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:51:15 AM EST

Never said that minors should be exposed. - (imric) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 11:58:13 AM EST

It sounds like a reasonable compromise to me as well -NT - (ben_tilly) - Feb. 16, 2006, 01:35:59 PM EST

<reagan>There you go again</reagan> - (drewk) - (1) - Feb. 16, 2006, 09:03:10 AM EST

It is not just Libertarians who say that - (ben_tilly) - Feb. 16, 2006, 10:55:08 AM EST

It is about health - (lister) - (22) - Feb. 15, 2006, 01:59:04 PM EST

what kind of point is that? - (boxley) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 02:01:05 PM EST

It was an example - (lister) - Feb. 15, 2006, 02:29:33 PM EST

No, its not. - (bepatient) - (6) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:24:10 PM EST

I don't disagree on truly private clubs. - (admin) - (4) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:32:41 PM EST

Works for after-hours clubs - (drewk) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:00:21 PM EST

It's a loophole if... - (admin) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:06:15 PM EST

That loophole can be closed - (bepatient) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:35:58 PM EST

I don't disagree with any of that. - (admin) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:20:34 PM EST

Please elaborate. - (Another Scott) - Feb. 15, 2006, 03:33:43 PM EST

Idiotic. I'd leave. I wouldn't pass a law against BO. - (imric) - (12) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:15:37 PM EST

You missed the point. - (admin) - (11) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:19:26 PM EST

If that were true - (imric) - (10) - Feb. 15, 2006, 04:27:55 PM EST

You're absolutely right, I don't HAVE to go to a bar. - (admin) - (9) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:27:43 PM EST

Did you people get any work done today? -NT - (broomberg) - (4) - Feb. 15, 2006, 07:05:09 PM EST

Nope -NT - (drewk) - Feb. 15, 2006, 08:41:13 PM EST

I type quickly. -NT - (admin) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 09:39:57 PM EST

Interesting way to avoid answering the question... -NT - (ben_tilly) - Feb. 16, 2006, 12:57:14 AM EST

Yup -NT - (ben_tilly) - Feb. 15, 2006, 10:01:44 PM EST

why cant you drink draft beer and play pool in yer home? - (boxley) - (3) - Feb. 15, 2006, 08:00:45 PM EST

Don't have a keg fridge - (admin) - (2) - Feb. 15, 2006, 09:39:33 PM EST

internet, check basement check duct tape check don t need a - (boxley) - (1) - Feb. 15, 2006, 10:29:12 PM EST

I don't drink that much beer. :-) -NT - (admin) - Feb. 15, 2006, 10:37:54 PM EST

Yes, but I think Seattle went a little far - (tuberculosis) - Feb. 15, 2006, 05:13:55 PM EST

It may change soon in Virginia too. - (Another Scott) - Feb. 15, 2006, 11:49:12 PM EST

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