Post #244,903
2/16/06 9:01:09 AM
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Still avoiding it, huh.
Can't come up with a another rationalization as to why smokers can't be allowed their own places to smoke? Other than the whine "but we want to hang out with smokers whenever WE want to, and when we do, we want to force them not to smoke, and our desire to hang out with them when they are smoking is more important than their desire to smoke".
It's bullshit, Peter. NOWHERE do I say that smokers should be allowed to light up anywhere. Nowhere do I say that "No Smoking" signs are wrong. Just that they should not be REQUIRED BY LAW everywhere that smokers may gather.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning, As hopeless as it seems in the middle, Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #244,908
2/16/06 9:06:35 AM
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You have a place.
It's called "your house".
Peter [link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #244,911
2/16/06 9:11:17 AM
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Cr@p.
And if I made that argument for non-smokers, you'd be outraged.
Again, your rationalisations and reasoning is false, your arguments are bullshit, and your actions are bullying.
Period. Your inability to argue this issue is noted.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning, As hopeless as it seems in the middle, Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #244,927
2/16/06 10:14:08 AM
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![New](/static/images/lrpd.gif)
I'll play, briefly.
Can't come up with a another rationalization as to why smokers can't be allowed their own places to smoke? Businesses, bars, clubs, etc., usually have employees. Employees have a right to a safe work environment (consistent with their duties and the job requirements - e.g. mining has different requirements from office or restaurant work). [link|http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24602|OSHA]: Environmental Tobacco Smoke (ETS)
Because the organic material in tobacco doesn't burn completely, cigarette smoke contains more than 4,700 chemical compounds. Although OSHA has no regulation that addresses tobacco smoke as a whole, 29 CFR 1910.1000 Air contaminants, limits employee exposure to several of the main chemical components found in tobacco smoke. In normal situations, exposures would not exceed these permissible exposure limits (PELs), and, as a matter of prosecutorial discretion, OSHA will not apply the General Duty Clause to ETS. Emphasis added. OSHA has [link|http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/indoorairquality/recognition.html|lots of information] on indoor air quality standards, as does the [link|http://www.epa.gov/iaq/index.html|EPA]. Indoor cigarette smoke is a health hazard that should be minimized. It's not a discrimination issue to insist that smokers go outside to light up. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #244,946
2/16/06 11:19:53 AM
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And of course no employees smoke
And of course all of them mind.
More rationalizations.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning, As hopeless as it seems in the middle, Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #244,958
2/16/06 11:47:16 AM
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![New](/static/images/lrpd.gif)
Heath and safety rules are inconvenient.
It's not about "minding", it's about health and safety.
Not being able to run red lights and stop signs when I feel like it is inconvenient. "Hey, you're interferring with my rights! I'm not hurting anyone! If anyone is offended, well they're just discriminating against minorities! They can drive somewhere else!"
Bah.
I understand your point.
But you don't seem to accept that the best information we have indicates that 2nd hand cigarette smoke is a health hazard. If a smoker wants to kill themselves slowly, well I think it's stupid, but I won't get agitated about it. When they damage my health, or the health of others, I will get agitated about it.
I agree with laws banning smoking in indoor public places, workplaces, and even private clubs that are businesses that have employees. It's a reasonable health regulation.
I'll bow out now.
Cheers, Scott.
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Post #244,962
2/16/06 11:51:40 AM
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You don't mind if smokers do it in their own homes
but DO mind if they do it at work while serving other smokers?
Interesting.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning, As hopeless as it seems in the middle, Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #244,979
2/16/06 12:51:02 PM
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Smoking is an interesting case re: the health issues
What about my severe asbestos dust habit?
Mind if I indulge that particular foible in public?
My other hobby is snorting radioactive waste. You don't mind me doing that whilst I'm stood next to you at the bar, do you?
Thought not.
Oh, wait...
Peter [link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #244,981
2/16/06 1:12:39 PM
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![New](/static/images/lrpd.gif)
Men of straw.
But you know what? If you want a club to go and do that stuff with others of like mind, and the substances aren't illegal in the first place, knock your socks off.
Oh, wait...
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning, As hopeless as it seems in the middle, Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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