Post #244,748
2/15/06 5:02:44 PM
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Many times it easier to breathe
the smoke and be with friends than to listen to those same friends whine and cry when they go to a smokefree area.
I'm glad St. Paul, Minneapolis, Bloomington, and a few others have banned smoking in all public buildings, including resturants and bars.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #244,754
2/15/06 5:10:47 PM
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So *you* would rather breathe smoke than hear whining
So everyone else is told what to do.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #244,932
2/16/06 10:45:19 AM
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Hell no
The only two establishments that I visit that allow smoking are: The bowling alley, 'cuz I joined a work league. Will quit after this year as I don't like the smoke and TGIFriday's when I have to pick up items (my wife is partial to their French Onion soup).
If I had my way, I'd just put a $10-$20 tax per cigarette and raise it annually by the same amount. I'd arrest anyone smoking in their vehicle, when they have children with them for child endangerment. Same for smoking at home when children are present. As I said, I have very strong anti-smoking views.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #244,935
2/16/06 10:57:50 AM
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And you'd create a drug war to make our existing one...
pale to insignificance.
That is the main reason why I am for making it possible for smokers to smoke. No matter how much I dislike smoke, I'd dislike far more the increased violence from making smoking illegal.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #244,939
2/16/06 11:06:43 AM
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I didn't say make it illegal....
Just illegal to endanger children.
Good point though on taxing it too high. How about until starts to hurt, but before it's cheaper to smuggle? :-)
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #244,951
2/16/06 11:37:10 AM
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It's already cheaper to smuggle...
if you can tolerate risk for guaranteed profit.
The question is when mainstream smokers will start smoking smuggled cigarettes. And that does not have a simple answer.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #244,954
2/16/06 11:40:31 AM
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now? I can mail order 4 cartons a month from Israel
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #244,980
2/16/06 12:53:29 PM
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Now.
Smuggled and/or 'native' smokes are already a big feature here. A carton costs ~60 bucks, but I can get 200 smokes for fifteen from the right person. Mind you, they're manufactured on Mohawk reserves in the area (mostly Kahnesetake near Montreal) which is perfectly legal for them to do and sell sans federal and provincial taxes, but they do tend to be a lot harder on the lungs than tailor mades.
Smuggled is because I can legally go to a reserve and buy them for cheap, but if I want to get them here in Kingston from the right person, he and I are breaking the law if we don't pay taxes.
For the most part, I go with the cut rate smokes (I've been smoking a brand called Canadian Classics, manufactured north of Toronto); they cost about a buck and a half less of a mainstream brand (duMaurier or Players, for example) but are still legal and are better made than the KMT (Kahnesetake Mohawk Territory) smokes.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #244,984
2/16/06 1:26:17 PM
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Canada's taxes are higher than US taxes
And I already knew that boxley has a high tolerance for risk if he gets guaranteed reward.
Most smokers around here don't smoke smuggled cigarettes. But if the price changes enough, they would.
However it isn't just price. For instance if the postal service began monitoring better, boxley might be less inclined to mail order. And if it weren't for a ready supply of untaxed legal cigarettes, Jake wouldn't face such an easy choice.
But still at some point, people will break the law.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #244,985
2/16/06 1:29:19 PM
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do people around you go to Indian Smokeshops?
if they buy there, then dont mail a check to the california state government they are breaking the law.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #244,988
2/16/06 1:38:03 PM
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Not that I know of.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #245,009
2/16/06 3:45:31 PM
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Not true when it comes to smokes
The price of cigarettes in the border states to Ontario and Quebec are now very comparable to the price within Ontario and Quebec; in some cases they are even higher than they are in these two provinces (I'm talking about New York, Vermont, and Maine here).
When the price differential was large a few years back, there was a big smuggling operation from the US to Canada across the St. Lawrence River, mostly near Cornwall. However, that trade has dried up.
The history is that Ontario and Quebec dropped their taxes on cigarettes significantly after negotiating with the feds to do the same, resulting in a huge price cut in Canada, and esp. in Ontario and Quebec. This was done specifically to remove the economic incentive to cross border cigarette smuggling; the public order problem had become unmanageable, with running battles on the St. Lawrence involving automatic weapons between police and smugglers as well as between different groups of smugglers. It was becoming very risky to boat on that part of the river, and since that area is also a major tourist area, the decision was made to kill the smugglers by rendering the activity unprofitable instead of through interdiction; the lesson of prohibition (where we were the country doing the supplying) was well learned and not forgotten by law enforcement as well as by government.
After that happened, in the US the states won their suit against the tobacco companies (ISTR 300 G$ being the amount won) on the basis of medical expenses or some such, which resulted in the price of smokes skyrocketing as the industry had to hit consumers to pay the legal bill at the same time that these states started charging more taxes on cigarettes to ostensibly cover the increased medical costs that smoking incurs on the part of medical consumers. Since then, Ontario and Quebec have gradually increased the prices over the course of the last four or five years to a point where they brought the price up into the range of that being charged on the other side of the border.
There's more history to it than that, of course; the era of hard core smoke smuggling across The River near Cornhole is as colourful as any other smuggling story (like prohibition, for example). But the economics of it are basically as above.
Right now, smokes cost marginally more in Watertown than they do in Kingston (though perhaps the recent tanking of the US dollar will have changed that). There is no impetus to smuggle across the border anymore.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #245,023
2/16/06 5:05:46 PM
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Good to know. My impression was out of date.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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