Post #244,712
2/15/06 3:57:57 PM
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I was poor, true. Desparate times DO require desparate
measures. I worked a job that was unhealthy, too - and was glad to get it. Did I scream that we should all get air filters and respirators? No.
Did I change jobs when I found a better? Even when it meant leaving friends and family behind? Would I have changed jobs when I found another (even a bad job) there? Yes. It comes down to personal responsibility.
As for 'perception' issues - that's easily solved by raising liquor license fees for smoking establishments (Hell, give the difference to health orgs). If there are no-smoking establishments alongside 'smokers', then wait staff that prefer those environments will have someplace to go. If that many staff have a preference IRL, then smoking establishments will have to pay more to retain their staff as well. If there IS no difference, and it costs more, then the anti-smokers will have places to go, and smoking establishments will remain. As far as 'networking' goes - that would remain with non-smoking clubs as well - it's another rationalisation. Economic disincentive would get the ball rolling on breaking the so-called 'perception' without making people 2nd class citizens.
My point STILL stands.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #244,730
2/15/06 4:34:55 PM
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Finally, a reasonable counter-suggestion
And if you 1) don't have any other skills than being a waitress and 2) there are no other jobs around for you and 3) you have two kids to support and want to keep them in their current school and aren't willing to leave them behind and 4) can't afford to look for a job in another city...? I worked a job that was unhealthy, too - and was glad to get it. Did I scream that we should all get air filters and respirators? No. Thanks for that beautiful demonstration of my point. You don't rock the boat when you are lucky to have a seat at all. I like the liquor license suggestion. That's actually workable and reasonable. How would the networking remain? And sorry, I see YOUR "points" as the rationalization. That goes both ways. Don't just wave your hands and scream "rationalization! bogus point!". And it's not making you a second class citizen. You can still go to the bar, enjoy your beer, talk to your friends. You just can't smoke inside the building with other people. The cigarettes are being 2nd classed, not you. Now if you identify yourself so closely with your smoking, then that's your issue, not mine. You're welcome to change your behavior if you don't like that. I can't exactly get rid of my asthma. Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,737
2/15/06 4:45:21 PM
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How about peanuts?
There are people with peanut allergies.[1] Should we not allow nuts in public places?
Then there's [link|http://allergies.about.com/cs/fragrances/a/aa022299.htm|frangarance allergies]. I guess we have to outlaw perfume, cologne, scented deodorant. But damn, then we end up with BO, and that's against the law, too.
[1] There are [link|http://www.aafa.org/|2.5 times as many people with allergies as with asthma]. Alergies are [link|http://www.foodallergy.org/anaphylaxis/index.html|potentially fatal within minutes].
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Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #244,738
2/15/06 4:46:54 PM
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Thats why you get pretzels on planes now.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #244,770
2/15/06 5:33:16 PM
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I thought it was because the pretzels are cheaper.
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Post #244,742
2/15/06 4:57:30 PM
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Already have "stink" restrictions in many places.
Especially in the workplace. Workers filed grievances, unions reacted. Too much "scent" any you get set home to shower.
I enjoy the faint aroma of perfume, but I hate the assult on my nose from those who bathe in perfume (or cologne - some men are just as bad)
I won't get involved the discussion on smoking. My dad died of lung cancer - from smoking - when I was just 15. I have strong anti smoking feelings.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #244,744
2/15/06 4:58:18 PM
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They don't allow peanuts in the schools here.
Nuts aren't generally aerosols, either (although very very rarely some people seem to have that level of sensitivity).
And there are a hell of a lot more people with asthma and heart conditions than with deadly peanut allergies. I know one person with a deadly peanut allergy. I know dozens, if not more, with normal allergies and asthma.
That's a pretty inane use of statistics, Drew. I'm not interested if you're just trying to play games.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,751
2/15/06 5:07:36 PM
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Not playing games, making a point
I just realized this is the same argument the EU is having about "self-regulating" the media.
Here is something that "bothers" most people. Let's ban it.
Ah, here is something else that bothers, well, a lot of people. We'll ban that, too.
Now here's something that only bothers some people, but it really bothers them. And most people don't care much about it one way or the other, let's ban that too.
Gee, now here's something that's actually kind of popular, but it really really bothers this small group of people. You know what? Let's just ban that, too, and save ourselves the hassle.
...
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Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #244,760
2/15/06 5:18:51 PM
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Re: Not playing games, making a point
Sorry, I don't see a connection between banning stuff that offends people's sensibilities about their myths, and banning something that actually affects stuff that matters, like health.
And you're not making a point by using lousy statistics. You're just, well, using lousy statistics.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,767
2/15/06 5:28:23 PM
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Those offended by the cartoons would say that's what matters
Not saying I disagree with you. But you're deciding for other people what matters.
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Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #244,771
2/15/06 5:34:26 PM
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Shrug. It's all in your viewpoint.
But I give a lot more weight to a demonstrable physical reaction than someone's metaphysical outrage.
And that's exactly what the law is: deciding for everyone as a whole what matters, as far as everyone else (or at least a majority) is concerned.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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