Post #244,683
2/15/06 1:57:13 PM
2/15/06 1:59:04 PM
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It is about health
Ah yes *THAT* old mantra.
How would you, I presume a smoker, would like it if a group of guys with BO sat in for a pint? Not just regular BO but mutant rampant BO. The kind that clings and requires a good scrub to get rid of. I'm sure we've all encountered a person/people with this terrible olfactory problem. You wouldn't like it very much would you? Oh but it's not like anyone FORCED anyone to go there. Now put clones of those people in every single bar/club/restaurant and we'll see if you have a good time going out.
As far as competing, I don't know where you live but here in Toronto before the ban came into place there were very, very few non-smoking bars and restaurants.
lister
Edited by lister
Feb. 15, 2006, 01:59:04 PM EST
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Post #244,685
2/15/06 2:01:05 PM
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what kind of point is that?
Not just regular BO but mutant rampant BO. The kind that clings and requires a good scrub to get rid of. I'm sure we've all encountered a person/people with this terrible olfactory problem. You wouldn't like it very much would you? some of the best times I ever had were in bars like that.You want to hang out with poufs go ahead. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #244,689
2/15/06 2:29:33 PM
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It was an example
Hopefully one that most people have experienced and understand.
It could have been a city-wide ABBA tribute night instead. Whatever makes your nice time unpleasant.
lister
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Post #244,701
2/15/06 3:24:10 PM
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No, its not.
Its about the reduction in smokers to a percentage number below that which could swing a vote.
The rest of this is simple rationalization.
We had someone in NJ decide that smoking should be banned in cars. Personal vehicles. His thought process...lighting the cigarette was a distraction, so his law was no different than hands free cell phones.
Imric is right. It is about forcing one side. There are health effects, all of these can be managed through. I disagree that the ban should apply to private clubs. Public facilities, including pubs...smokers are a minority now and should expect to be treated as such.
And while you may argue that x has a right to y...keep in mind what rights are ACTUALLY guaranteed you. A smoke-free workplace is not one of those things.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #244,705
2/15/06 3:32:41 PM
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I don't disagree on truly private clubs.
But you see the loophole, don't you?
"Sir, before you enter the Main Street Pub you have to complete this short 'Member Application Form'... yes, just sign, the rest is filled out for you."
Banning smoking in cars is just plain stupidity. Although I'm torn on smoking with kids in cars, because they can't just get another ride or whatever.
It's also more complicated than a simple vote swing. The differential is in part based on who cares about the health effects and who does not.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,713
2/15/06 4:00:21 PM
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Works for after-hours clubs
"Sir, before you enter the Main Street Pub you have to complete this short 'Member Application Form'... yes, just sign, the rest is filled out for you." There was an after-hours club in Indianapolis back in the mid 90s. It was technically a private club, that was the way to stay open past 2. Membership cost $1. They gave you a card for your wallet that you had to sign. You showed it with your ID. How is it a loophole to take affitmative measures to ensure everyone there wanted to be there? ===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #244,750
2/15/06 5:06:15 PM
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It's a loophole if...
... the law was intended to make sure that establishments with a reasonable expectation of public use can reclassify themselves without substantially changing the nature of their business.
A walk-in is a walk-in, not a member.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,733
2/15/06 4:35:58 PM
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That loophole can be closed
by simple requirements and registration. And you could even fix the number of private clubs to make sure that some places would have to stay non-smoking.
As I said, smokers are now a minority and should expect to be treated as such. There are good science studies that show the 2nd hand effect is overstated...but that doesn't change the fact that there are folks like you who cannot be around the stuff and should, by all measure, have establishments to frequent that don't allow smoking.
Imric's point is also valid, it should NOT require a complete ban by legal means. It can and should be accomplished within the framework we have already established. Perhaps a reduction in license fees and taxes for those places that go smoke free and a hike in those same fees for those places that don't. It would create the niche areas for each without such a broad stroke.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #244,761
2/15/06 5:20:34 PM
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I don't disagree with any of that.
Skip didn't say squat about alternatives until quite a ways into the conversation. He spent all of his time disagreeing with the premise that it was necessary to do anything at all in the first place.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,706
2/15/06 3:33:43 PM
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Please elaborate.
There are health effects, all of these can be managed through. What on earth do you mean by that? Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #244,722
2/15/06 4:15:37 PM
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Idiotic. I'd leave. I wouldn't pass a law against BO.
Take my business elsewhere. If it was commonplace to that spot, and everybody left, I'm sure that the owners would do something - or perhaps they'd cater to congregating smelly folk. No loss to me.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #244,725
2/15/06 4:19:26 PM
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You missed the point.
EVERY bar has that problem from the non-smoker's standpoint. There is no "other place" to take one's business to, unless you want to become a shut-in.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,728
2/15/06 4:27:55 PM
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If that were true
there'd be non-smoker's bars without being forced by regulation. Established by non smokers that appreciated the problem.
There aren't.
So I disbelieve it. What next? Are you going to say that only smokers start their own bars? I KNOW that's not the case.
No - you are intentionally missing MY point, by insisting that somehow you are being forced to frequent smoking establishments. And I call bullshit.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #244,765
2/15/06 5:27:43 PM
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You're absolutely right, I don't HAVE to go to a bar.
You don't HAVE to smoke, either. However, you can smoke in your own home, but I can't drink draft beer and play pool in mine.
And I've already pointed out why I think there aren't non-smoking bars: fear of reduced profits due to networking effects.
And please point out to me exactly where I said I was being forced to frequent smoking establishments.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,788
2/15/06 7:05:09 PM
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Did you people get any work done today?
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Post #244,812
2/15/06 8:41:13 PM
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Nope
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #244,840
2/15/06 9:39:57 PM
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I type quickly.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,872
2/16/06 12:57:14 AM
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Interesting way to avoid answering the question...
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #244,844
2/15/06 10:01:44 PM
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Yup
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #244,802
2/15/06 8:00:45 PM
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why cant you drink draft beer and play pool in yer home?
all the beer stores around here sell kegs, and pool tables are not expensive.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #244,839
2/15/06 9:39:33 PM
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Don't have a keg fridge
And while pool tables aren't that expensive, they are large.
I'd rather go somewhere with a better sound system, actual leather pockets on the tables, and 15 different kinds of good beer on tap, anyway.
And if I were single, I'd have a much better chance of meeting a girl at a bar than in my basement... ;-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #244,850
2/15/06 10:29:12 PM
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internet, check basement check duct tape check don t need a
fridge if you finish the keg the same day you buy it sheesh.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #244,854
2/15/06 10:37:54 PM
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I don't drink that much beer. :-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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