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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / Theory and Practice of Programming Forum / Completely missing the point.
Post #239,397
by admin
Picture of admin
12/25/05 2:35:08 PM
Reply
New Completely missing the point.
Yes, Firefox and Safari are better. Yes, IE sucks massive donkey dongs. That doesn't mean that Firefox and Safari aren't broken as well. Just in different, lesser ways.

There are definitely more issues to work around in IE, but I've had to work around issues in Firefox too (try hiding/showing multiple stacked iframes sometime).

Firefox may be the best on the web, but it is still broken.

Camino is much worse than Firefox. Crap-ass port. I couldn't use it for more than a few minutes before stumbling across a bug or a crash.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #239,398
by tuberculosis
Picture of tuberculosis
12/25/05 2:47:29 PM
Reply
New Yep, I don't get your point
Browser ranking in order of suckyness of 3 leading browsers (which make up about 98% of traffic) is IE 6, Safari, Firefox.

So?

Of these, two are making improvements.

One is stuck in time and it happens to be the suckyest one. So eliminating support for it can only be a good thing.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Post #239,402
by admin
Picture of admin
12/25/05 3:47:43 PM
Reply
New Re: Yep, I don't get your point
You said earlier: "If your browser crashes, you need a new one."

Ben said (later on): "Name me a non-broken browser that is available today and is useable on mainstream websites."

Peter said: "Firefox, Opera, Safari, Camino"

And I said: "Firefox, Safari, and Camino at least are broken"

The point being that there aren't ANY browsers that aren't broken. So telling someone they need something new because the old crashes means that no one will be using anything.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #239,477
by tuberculosis
Picture of tuberculosis
12/26/05 10:59:48 PM
Reply
New So I should probably add something to my webpage
like "Your browser has exceeded this site's minimum suckativity index. Please download a less sucky browser - here are some suggestions".


"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
     Graphing in Javascript using Canvas Tag - (tuberculosis) - (82) - Dec. 15, 2005, 09:06:52 PM EST
         Nifty, but next to useless, unfortunately. - (admin) - (8) - Dec. 15, 2005, 10:16:45 PM EST
             Only if you're supporting broken browsers - (tuberculosis) - (7) - Dec. 16, 2005, 01:33:27 AM EST
                 Er... - (admin) - (6) - Dec. 16, 2005, 07:13:18 AM EST
                     Yes, this is a toy - (tuberculosis) - (5) - Dec. 16, 2005, 11:05:56 AM EST
                         What about SVG? - (ChrisR) - (4) - Dec. 16, 2005, 11:23:05 AM EST
                             Its dead, Jim. - (tuberculosis) - (3) - Dec. 16, 2005, 12:08:00 PM EST
                                 It's dead on the web. - (pwhysall) - Dec. 16, 2005, 11:53:40 AM EST
                                 Standardization process is broken - (JayMehaffey) - (1) - Dec. 16, 2005, 12:17:52 PM EST
                                     Have you ever served on standards committee? - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 16, 2005, 03:05:40 PM EST
         And it crashes older browsers.... - (Simon_Jester) - (72) - Dec. 20, 2005, 09:22:17 AM EST
             Cool! Makes you wanna upgrade! - (tuberculosis) - (71) - Dec. 20, 2005, 12:42:08 PM EST
                 No. Makes me think the web designer is a jackass. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (69) - Dec. 20, 2005, 12:43:38 PM EST
                     If a browser crashes - its not the designer's fault - (tuberculosis) - (68) - Dec. 20, 2005, 12:49:46 PM EST
                         Strongly disagree - (ben_tilly) - (67) - Dec. 20, 2005, 01:04:46 PM EST
                             I think we have different quality expectations of software - (tuberculosis) - (66) - Dec. 20, 2005, 02:45:35 PM EST
                                 I seem to recall... - (Yendor) - (1) - Dec. 20, 2005, 03:17:26 PM EST
                                     If it's valid HTML/CSS, that's a browser bug. - (pwhysall) - Dec. 20, 2005, 03:54:11 PM EST
                                 Agree on the crash thing. - (pwhysall) - Dec. 20, 2005, 03:53:07 PM EST
                                 I agree with you about well-written software - (ben_tilly) - (62) - Dec. 20, 2005, 04:14:38 PM EST
                                     Not blaming the users per se - (tuberculosis) - (61) - Dec. 20, 2005, 05:55:08 PM EST
                                         cf. Ada - (jb4) - Dec. 20, 2005, 06:28:32 PM EST
                                         member of a working group now, know what ya mean -NT - (boxley) - Dec. 20, 2005, 06:37:43 PM EST
                                         You might not be blaming the users... - (ben_tilly) - (58) - Dec. 20, 2005, 06:43:31 PM EST
                                             problem is you are all not willing to use microsoft only -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 20, 2005, 07:05:16 PM EST
                                                 The right analogy for that is... - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 20, 2005, 07:08:11 PM EST
                                             Or the user is enabling bad coders - (tuberculosis) - (55) - Dec. 20, 2005, 07:40:24 PM EST
                                                 Suppose I'm a user using an old browser... - (ben_tilly) - (54) - Dec. 20, 2005, 10:46:58 PM EST
                                                     By this logic we should all stick to html 3.2 forever - (tuberculosis) - (53) - Dec. 20, 2005, 11:38:00 PM EST
                                                         Go back to the root conversation - (ben_tilly) - (52) - Dec. 21, 2005, 11:49:20 AM EST
                                                             And it hasn't been touched in over 5 years - (tuberculosis) - (49) - Dec. 21, 2005, 12:23:33 PM EST
                                                                 In other words the 1% figure was a red herring - (ben_tilly) - (48) - Dec. 22, 2005, 12:20:51 PM EST
                                                                     I'm not the one doing the punishing in this scenario - (tuberculosis) - (4) - Dec. 22, 2005, 12:45:13 PM EST
                                                                         You're not? - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Dec. 22, 2005, 08:17:03 PM EST
                                                                             One user's pain is another's pleasure - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:20:19 AM EST
                                                                                 Far too often... - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Dec. 23, 2005, 03:04:14 AM EST
                                                                                     He should not have to -NT - (broomberg) - Dec. 23, 2005, 11:49:48 AM EST
                                                                     Is high-bandwidth streaming video a punishment? - (drewk) - (22) - Dec. 22, 2005, 01:12:11 PM EST
                                                                         If you want to limit yourself... do that. - (folkert) - (18) - Dec. 22, 2005, 02:04:09 PM EST
                                                                             No, they're being punsished - (drewk) - (17) - Dec. 22, 2005, 02:10:59 PM EST
                                                                                 ICLRPDs. (new thread) - (Another Scott) - Dec. 22, 2005, 02:15:57 PM EST
                                                                                 I wonder how Ben feels about stations - (tuberculosis) - (3) - Dec. 22, 2005, 02:46:49 PM EST
                                                                                     Seems the US government is shoving this one - (folkert) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2005, 03:34:23 PM EST
                                                                                         IIRC - (jb4) - Dec. 27, 2005, 06:49:54 PM EST
                                                                                     I think that the switch is fine... - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:38:27 PM EST
                                                                                 No, it is not punishing them. - (folkert) - (11) - Dec. 22, 2005, 03:29:32 PM EST
                                                                                     I think you summarized my position pretty well - (ben_tilly) - (10) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:50:06 PM EST
                                                                                         Firefox is a 5MB download that works well on older computers -NT - (pwhysall) - (9) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:54:24 PM EST
                                                                                             Not on my old system - (ben_tilly) - (8) - Dec. 22, 2005, 08:14:37 PM EST
                                                                                                 Re: Not on my old system - (pwhysall) - (7) - Dec. 23, 2005, 03:46:57 AM EST
                                                                                                     Is there a reason? - (ben_tilly) - (6) - Dec. 23, 2005, 01:23:02 PM EST
                                                                                                         "Hu-mour". -NT - (admin) - (5) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:03:19 PM EST
                                                                                                             Can't be. It isn't funny. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:33:37 PM EST
                                                                                                                 Beg to differ - (drewk) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:40:14 PM EST
                                                                                                                 Maybe to *you* it isn't. - (admin) - (2) - Dec. 23, 2005, 05:45:53 PM EST
                                                                                                                     of course they are misfunctioning, he's a father now -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 23, 2005, 06:17:01 PM EST
                                                                                                                         Agreed - (broomberg) - Dec. 23, 2005, 07:41:44 PM EST
                                                                         No - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:39:58 PM EST
                                                                             Nobody? - (drewk) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:50:41 PM EST
                                                                                 People aren't doing that? - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 22, 2005, 08:12:52 PM EST
                                                                     I disagree - (pwhysall) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2005, 01:33:56 PM EST
                                                                         Yes, the product is broken. But... - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:41:56 PM EST
                                                                     Also, aren't the users *choosing* to use a broken product? -NT - (pwhysall) - (17) - Dec. 22, 2005, 03:38:01 PM EST
                                                                         Same question I offered Todd - (ben_tilly) - (16) - Dec. 22, 2005, 08:24:54 PM EST
                                                                             Firefox, Opera, Safari, Camino -NT - (pwhysall) - (9) - Dec. 23, 2005, 03:47:48 AM EST
                                                                                 Firefox, Safari, and Camino at least are broken - (admin) - (7) - Dec. 23, 2005, 09:06:34 AM EST
                                                                                     Firefox and Safari - (tuberculosis) - (6) - Dec. 24, 2005, 10:56:24 PM EST
                                                                                         Firefox dumps core fairly regularly for me - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Dec. 25, 2005, 04:41:37 AM EST
                                                                                             Firefox/Deerpark 1.5 beta weird for me on MEPIS. - (Another Scott) - Dec. 25, 2005, 05:11:18 PM EST
                                                                                         Completely missing the point. - (admin) - (3) - Dec. 25, 2005, 02:35:08 PM EST
                                                                                             Yep, I don't get your point - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Dec. 25, 2005, 02:47:29 PM EST
                                                                                                 Re: Yep, I don't get your point - (admin) - (1) - Dec. 25, 2005, 03:47:43 PM EST
                                                                                                     So I should probably add something to my webpage - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 26, 2005, 10:59:48 PM EST
                                                                                 What Scott said - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:02:36 PM EST
                                                                             Epiphany -NT - (drewk) - (5) - Dec. 23, 2005, 10:08:50 AM EST
                                                                                 I haven't used it yet but... - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Dec. 23, 2005, 01:25:46 PM EST
                                                                                     Well I feel silly - (SpiceWare) - (3) - Dec. 23, 2005, 01:59:00 PM EST
                                                                                         And now I feel silly as well - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:04:57 PM EST
                                                                                             Wheee! cha-ching cha-ching - (drewk) - (1) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:15:54 PM EST
                                                                                                 LOL - don't feel quite so silly anymore -NT - (SpiceWare) - Dec. 23, 2005, 04:04:24 PM EST
                                                             He who pays the piper calls the tune. - (broomberg) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2005, 09:38:12 PM EST
                                                                 I understand why it happens. I don't have to like it. -NT - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 22, 2005, 09:50:43 PM EST
                 "The job is not done - (Arkadiy) - Dec. 20, 2005, 08:24:39 PM EST

I'd like to thank the Academy...
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