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Post #239,056 by ben_tilly 12/22/05 8:17:03 PM Reply	You're not? If you do something knowing that it will cause pain to be inflicted, arguing about whether you are at fault is just a question of semantics. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #239,109 by tuberculosis 12/23/05 2:17:36 AM 12/23/05 2:20:19 AM Reply	One user's pain is another's pleasure I can't please everybody. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Dec. 23, 2005, 02:20:19 AM EST Expand All History
Post #239,111 by ben_tilly 12/23/05 3:04:14 AM Reply	Far too often... people don't even try. People who give themselves easy excuses are particularly unlikely to try. Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #239,202 by broomberg 12/23/05 11:49:48 AM Reply	He should not have to

Graphing in Javascript using Canvas Tag - (tuberculosis) - (82) - Dec. 15, 2005, 09:06:52 PM EST

Nifty, but next to useless, unfortunately. - (admin) - (8) - Dec. 15, 2005, 10:16:45 PM EST

Only if you're supporting broken browsers - (tuberculosis) - (7) - Dec. 16, 2005, 01:33:27 AM EST

Er... - (admin) - (6) - Dec. 16, 2005, 07:13:18 AM EST

Yes, this is a toy - (tuberculosis) - (5) - Dec. 16, 2005, 11:05:56 AM EST

What about SVG? - (ChrisR) - (4) - Dec. 16, 2005, 11:23:05 AM EST

Its dead, Jim. - (tuberculosis) - (3) - Dec. 16, 2005, 12:08:00 PM EST

It's dead on the web. - (pwhysall) - Dec. 16, 2005, 11:53:40 AM EST

Standardization process is broken - (JayMehaffey) - (1) - Dec. 16, 2005, 12:17:52 PM EST

Have you ever served on standards committee? - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 16, 2005, 03:05:40 PM EST

And it crashes older browsers.... - (Simon_Jester) - (72) - Dec. 20, 2005, 09:22:17 AM EST

Cool! Makes you wanna upgrade! - (tuberculosis) - (71) - Dec. 20, 2005, 12:42:08 PM EST

No. Makes me think the web designer is a jackass. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (69) - Dec. 20, 2005, 12:43:38 PM EST

If a browser crashes - its not the designer's fault - (tuberculosis) - (68) - Dec. 20, 2005, 12:49:46 PM EST

Strongly disagree - (ben_tilly) - (67) - Dec. 20, 2005, 01:04:46 PM EST

I think we have different quality expectations of software - (tuberculosis) - (66) - Dec. 20, 2005, 02:45:35 PM EST

I seem to recall... - (Yendor) - (1) - Dec. 20, 2005, 03:17:26 PM EST

If it's valid HTML/CSS, that's a browser bug. - (pwhysall) - Dec. 20, 2005, 03:54:11 PM EST

Agree on the crash thing. - (pwhysall) - Dec. 20, 2005, 03:53:07 PM EST

I agree with you about well-written software - (ben_tilly) - (62) - Dec. 20, 2005, 04:14:38 PM EST

Not blaming the users per se - (tuberculosis) - (61) - Dec. 20, 2005, 05:55:08 PM EST

cf. Ada - (jb4) - Dec. 20, 2005, 06:28:32 PM EST

member of a working group now, know what ya mean -NT - (boxley) - Dec. 20, 2005, 06:37:43 PM EST

You might not be blaming the users... - (ben_tilly) - (58) - Dec. 20, 2005, 06:43:31 PM EST

problem is you are all not willing to use microsoft only -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 20, 2005, 07:05:16 PM EST

The right analogy for that is... - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 20, 2005, 07:08:11 PM EST

Or the user is enabling bad coders - (tuberculosis) - (55) - Dec. 20, 2005, 07:40:24 PM EST

Suppose I'm a user using an old browser... - (ben_tilly) - (54) - Dec. 20, 2005, 10:46:58 PM EST

By this logic we should all stick to html 3.2 forever - (tuberculosis) - (53) - Dec. 20, 2005, 11:38:00 PM EST

Go back to the root conversation - (ben_tilly) - (52) - Dec. 21, 2005, 11:49:20 AM EST

And it hasn't been touched in over 5 years - (tuberculosis) - (49) - Dec. 21, 2005, 12:23:33 PM EST

In other words the 1% figure was a red herring - (ben_tilly) - (48) - Dec. 22, 2005, 12:20:51 PM EST

I'm not the one doing the punishing in this scenario - (tuberculosis) - (4) - Dec. 22, 2005, 12:45:13 PM EST

You're not? - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Dec. 22, 2005, 08:17:03 PM EST

One user's pain is another's pleasure - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:20:19 AM EST

Far too often... - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Dec. 23, 2005, 03:04:14 AM EST

He should not have to -NT - (broomberg) - Dec. 23, 2005, 11:49:48 AM EST

Is high-bandwidth streaming video a punishment? - (drewk) - (22) - Dec. 22, 2005, 01:12:11 PM EST

If you want to limit yourself... do that. - (folkert) - (18) - Dec. 22, 2005, 02:04:09 PM EST

No, they're being punsished - (drewk) - (17) - Dec. 22, 2005, 02:10:59 PM EST

ICLRPDs. (new thread) - (Another Scott) - Dec. 22, 2005, 02:15:57 PM EST

I wonder how Ben feels about stations - (tuberculosis) - (3) - Dec. 22, 2005, 02:46:49 PM EST

Seems the US government is shoving this one - (folkert) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2005, 03:34:23 PM EST

IIRC - (jb4) - Dec. 27, 2005, 06:49:54 PM EST

I think that the switch is fine... - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:38:27 PM EST

No, it is not punishing them. - (folkert) - (11) - Dec. 22, 2005, 03:29:32 PM EST

I think you summarized my position pretty well - (ben_tilly) - (10) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:50:06 PM EST

Firefox is a 5MB download that works well on older computers -NT - (pwhysall) - (9) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:54:24 PM EST

Not on my old system - (ben_tilly) - (8) - Dec. 22, 2005, 08:14:37 PM EST

Re: Not on my old system - (pwhysall) - (7) - Dec. 23, 2005, 03:46:57 AM EST

Is there a reason? - (ben_tilly) - (6) - Dec. 23, 2005, 01:23:02 PM EST

"Hu-mour". -NT - (admin) - (5) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:03:19 PM EST

Can't be. It isn't funny. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:33:37 PM EST

Beg to differ - (drewk) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:40:14 PM EST

Maybe to *you* it isn't. - (admin) - (2) - Dec. 23, 2005, 05:45:53 PM EST

of course they are misfunctioning, he's a father now -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 23, 2005, 06:17:01 PM EST

Agreed - (broomberg) - Dec. 23, 2005, 07:41:44 PM EST

No - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:39:58 PM EST

Nobody? - (drewk) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:50:41 PM EST

People aren't doing that? - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 22, 2005, 08:12:52 PM EST

I disagree - (pwhysall) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2005, 01:33:56 PM EST

Yes, the product is broken. But... - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 22, 2005, 04:41:56 PM EST

Also, aren't the users *choosing* to use a broken product? -NT - (pwhysall) - (17) - Dec. 22, 2005, 03:38:01 PM EST

Same question I offered Todd - (ben_tilly) - (16) - Dec. 22, 2005, 08:24:54 PM EST

Firefox, Opera, Safari, Camino -NT - (pwhysall) - (9) - Dec. 23, 2005, 03:47:48 AM EST

Firefox, Safari, and Camino at least are broken - (admin) - (7) - Dec. 23, 2005, 09:06:34 AM EST

Firefox and Safari - (tuberculosis) - (6) - Dec. 24, 2005, 10:56:24 PM EST

Firefox dumps core fairly regularly for me - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Dec. 25, 2005, 04:41:37 AM EST

Firefox/Deerpark 1.5 beta weird for me on MEPIS. - (Another Scott) - Dec. 25, 2005, 05:11:18 PM EST

Completely missing the point. - (admin) - (3) - Dec. 25, 2005, 02:35:08 PM EST

Yep, I don't get your point - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Dec. 25, 2005, 02:47:29 PM EST

Re: Yep, I don't get your point - (admin) - (1) - Dec. 25, 2005, 03:47:43 PM EST

So I should probably add something to my webpage - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 26, 2005, 10:59:48 PM EST

What Scott said - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:02:36 PM EST

Epiphany -NT - (drewk) - (5) - Dec. 23, 2005, 10:08:50 AM EST

I haven't used it yet but... - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Dec. 23, 2005, 01:25:46 PM EST

Well I feel silly - (SpiceWare) - (3) - Dec. 23, 2005, 01:59:00 PM EST

And now I feel silly as well - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:04:57 PM EST

Wheee! cha-ching cha-ching - (drewk) - (1) - Dec. 23, 2005, 02:15:54 PM EST

LOL - don't feel quite so silly anymore -NT - (SpiceWare) - Dec. 23, 2005, 04:04:24 PM EST

He who pays the piper calls the tune. - (broomberg) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2005, 09:38:12 PM EST

I understand why it happens. I don't have to like it. -NT - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 22, 2005, 09:50:43 PM EST

"The job is not done - (Arkadiy) - Dec. 20, 2005, 08:24:39 PM EST

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