Post #224,702
9/14/05 9:44:08 AM
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Bush puts forth some proposals
[link|http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/12629945.htm|The Sate] President Bush on Monday urged Congress to examine whether the White House needs stronger powers to deal with catastrophes like Hurricane Katrina.
Bush\ufffds backing for the congressional inquiry raised the possibility that lawmakers might expand presidential authority to:
\ufffd Order mandatory civilian evacuations
\ufffd Dispatch U.S.-based armed forces for emergency search-and-rescue operations
\ufffd Grant wider leeway for active-duty U.S. military personnel to carry out law enforcement operations.
\ufffdIt\ufffds really important that as we take a step back and learn lessons \ufffd that we are in a position to adequately answer the question: \ufffdAre we prepared for major catastrophes?\ufffd\ufffd Bush said during a tour of hurricane damage in New Orleans. Bush puts forth some proposals to help prevent another New Orleans level disaster. All of which involve him getting more power. Of the proposals, the only one that might actually be useful is greater freedom to dispatch military search and rescue teams. And the proposal to allow for greater military law enforcement is very dangerous. Jay
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Post #224,706
9/14/05 9:53:25 AM
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Hey, just like DUI laws
Let's see, we bust people for drunk driving 23 times and don't do anything but extend the suspension of their license. I know! Let's lower the legal limit so we can bust more people for the same thing. Doesn't actually address the problem that existing laws aren't being enforced, but let's us talk about how tough we are on crime.
Now we have a glaring example where people didn't do what the law already says they can and should do. I know! Let's write more laws giving them permission to do even more things ... which they still won't do. Unless they want to.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #224,709
9/14/05 10:04:04 AM
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Counter proposal
Lets fire the (ir)responsible parties and get some competent management in here. That's what Wall Street would do.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #224,723
9/14/05 10:44:36 AM
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Ignores one factor
There are critiques of government response that involve actions that are beyond the scope of the Fed at this time.
I've pointed this out on several occassions.
Now the suggestions are coming in that involve a "federal power grab"...which I've pointed out will be STRONGLY criticized by the people here. (and if he'd have attempted it before would have been strongly resisted at that time as well).
Now they make the argument for that power grab (the one necessary to implement alot of the things that y'all are demanding of them)...and the screaming begins.
Prescience is a curse :-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #224,728
9/14/05 11:14:56 AM
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Details?
the things that y'all are demanding of them I don't seem to remember these "demands" aside from doing the job they are supposed to do. -----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.
--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
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Post #224,730
9/14/05 11:28:14 AM
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How about
evacuating those in the city that couldn't evac themselves?
How about dropping military into a US city to establish order? (In advance)
Even more basic, how about eliminating the need to have Fed services be requested by the local responders.
Their are rules established that govern how these things work. Changing these rules amounts to a federal power grab, the one apparently being proposed by the resident idiot.
I'm not surprised by the proposals, or the reactions. You shouldn't be surprised by my "I told you so" either.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #224,733
9/14/05 11:32:31 AM
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I must be dense
I *still* don't remember these demands being made here.
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.
--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
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Post #224,755
9/14/05 1:37:35 PM
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The only thing I'm holding him responsible for
is solving the communication, command, and control problem of various emergency services that made responding to 9/11 so difficult. This is what was promised and 4 years later it ain't fixed.
That all by itself constitutes a firing offense.
Throwing that other shit in is you muddying the waters.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #224,748
9/14/05 1:26:26 PM
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No sale
We wanna see the plan. He hasn't show real responsibility with what he has and, frankly, what he has is more than sufficient.
You want a puppy, see if you can keep a plant alive first.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #224,766
9/14/05 2:00:27 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #224765 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=224765|ICLRPD]
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #224,795
9/14/05 4:13:42 PM
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I completely agree
I want to see the plan. I want to see all the rules vetted out. I want to see when and where the local, state and federal failures were and plans to have them resolved.
Also agree with the puppy comment. DHS was supposed to be a good idea. It was supposed to fix alot of weaknesses. Currently it hasn't and I, like you, want to know the reason why.
Also, side note, I would like to know why there was such a reliance on cell tech for communication. We have full satellite capability and FEMA is still using cellphones. They are bringing in their own towers and setting up their own network. (One of those no-bids in action)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #224,796
9/14/05 4:19:30 PM
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why are they not using dirigible cell sites?
cheaper than sat, easy to deploy, portable.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #224,799
9/14/05 4:25:59 PM
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Perhaps they're overly sensitive to high winds post hurrican
The people, not the balloons.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #224,800
9/14/05 4:26:04 PM
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Does Halliburton make those?
If not, there's your answer.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #224,802
9/14/05 4:31:39 PM
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They are now.
COWs
Problem is they come with the teams and require setup and infrastructure that may or may not be in place.
Sat is whenever, wherever
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #225,424
9/19/05 6:36:31 AM
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Hey, that's what may asked for.
Remember, it's all FEMA's fault. NOLA and LA are blameless. Well, the next time it will actually be true. The feds will have the mandate. And they will make a complete mess out of it. And out of the federalism principle as well. That's how the Bush-haters give him more power. Greek tragedy kind of thing, really.
------
179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
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Post #225,503
9/19/05 4:53:21 PM
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One does not 'Hate' a Bush - think, pity + disgust.
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Post #225,505
9/19/05 4:59:14 PM
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I'm sure he's happy to have it
along with his "mandate".
Offer an alternative that bathes, can actually stay on one side of an issue for 15 minutes, isn't in the entertainment business (sax players count)and can say "lockbox" without making 55% of the people laugh uncontrollably.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #225,516
9/19/05 6:06:18 PM
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As opposed to the current Berk...
...who can't say anything without making 55% of the people laugh uncontrollably (or retch)?
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #225,549
9/19/05 9:30:07 PM
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Insults are just so damned compelling aren't they?
#1. an alternative that bathes Yep, all Dems are hippies. Unloyal and cowardly, and stinky. Don't forget the stinky. (Even those of us who served in the infantry. Or perhaps especially considering the lack of laundry in the field.) #2 can actually stay on one side of an issue for 15 minutes Steadfast in opposition to new facts is the only way to go. #3 isn't in the entertainment business (sax players count) I may have to withdraw this comment as an insult in case Beep actually looks up to those in the entertainmant industry. #4 can say "lockbox" without making 55% of the people laugh uncontrollably * this is a good one. You have to break it down into its elements to get to the germ. I'll cut to the chase though; Gore was an egghead. Neener neener neener. *<ob counterinsult> like Bush can even *pronounce* lockbox -----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.
--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
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Post #225,569
9/20/05 6:56:43 AM
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Re: Insults are just so damned compelling aren't they?
#1.
> an alternative that bathes
Yep, all Dems are hippies. Unloyal and cowardly, and stinky. Don't forget the stinky. (Even those of us who served in the infantry. Or perhaps especially considering the lack of laundry in the field.) Seen Michael Moore in public? Not all dems are hippies. Not all hippies are dirty. Mr Moore is not all Democrats. (thank >your< lucky stars.) But to break this down any further is, essentially, explaining the punch line...since it was >supposed< to be read as light-hearted banter. Quit being so sensitive. (dems are too sensitive...you know). If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #225,447
9/19/05 11:05:53 AM
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Help is on the way!
Before the president spoke, Josh Marshall sounded [link|http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_09_11.php#006541|a note of concern] about the coming reconstruction project. What's driving this budgetary push is not a natural disaster but a political crisis, the president's political crisis. The White House is trying to undo self-inflicted political damage on the national dime.
[...]
at root intentions drive all. You'll never separate this operation or its results from the fact that the people in charge see it as a political operation. The use of this money for political purposes, for what amounts to a political campaign, tells you everything you need to know about what's coming. Bush putting Rove in charge was [link|http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_09_11.php#006550|not reassuring]. Let's see. What was the problem with Michael Brown exactly? Let's see. No expertise or experience for the job. Got the gig because he was pals with Bush's political fixer. Also a political loyalist. So to learn the lesson and get back on track, to run the recovery, President Bush picks Karl Rove.
[...]
Then there's the president's great line from the speech: "It is now clear that a challenge on this scale requires greater federal authority and a broader role for the armed forces."
No, it's not. Actually, every actual fact that's surfaced in the last two weeks points to just the opposite conclusion. There was no lack of federal authority to handle the situation. There was faulty organization, poor coordination and incompetence.
Show me the instance where the federal government was prevented from doing anything that needed to be done because it lacked the requisite authority.
This is like what we were talking about a few days ago. This is how repressive governments operate -- mixing inefficiency with authoritarian tendencies.
You don't repair disorganized or incompetent government by granting it more power. You fix it by making it more organized and more competent. If conservatism can't grasp that point, what is it good for? Is Josh Marshall correct? Is the gulf reconstruction going to be handled with the same methods, values, priorities and efficiency as the Iraq reconstruction? Giovanni Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for.
You don't need George Bush for that.
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Post #225,448
9/19/05 11:08:11 AM
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Those are rhetorical questions, right?
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #225,509
9/19/05 5:10:58 PM
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Why.. that's just.. a Beautiful summary; reminds vividly of
The scene where the Chief Engineer is showing the Captain of the Titanic the unextended tops of All Those bulkheads! ("water-tight" compartments; sorta ...) and describing the cascading effect, as the bow-angle \\ steepened.
The Captain thus grokked-to fullness: not merely that they were Doomed, but the entire physics of the How (and perhaps experienced a concentrated Moment-of-Hate? for the Designer, the $Management and the committees that went ahead with a fatal design.)
The Captain then comprehended fully: cha. cha. cha.
Like *this* fatally-flawed Design on us all.
And yes, the demonstrable fact: that 'Conservatives' have so little idea of What it is they think.. they want to 'Conserve'? these days: may constitute a basis for the new Voter IQ test, amidst the post-catastrophe mob-based cleanup (just after the Neoconman-Dunking Games in Salem, say?)
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