Post #223,403
9/7/05 11:23:46 AM
|
FEMA tries to block pictures from NO
[link|http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N06101601.htm|Reuters Alert Net] The U.S. government agency leading the rescue efforts after Hurricane Katrina said on Tuesday it does not want the news media to take photographs of the dead as they are recovered from the flooded New Orleans area. "We have requested that no photographs of the deceased be made by the media," the spokeswoman said in an e-mailed response to a Reuters inquiry. This may just be miscommunication over reporters not being allowed to come along with relief groups. But it seems to go further then that. Jay
|
Post #223,407
9/7/05 11:42:05 AM
|
How would you like to be the next of kin...
..notified by front page NYT pictures of your dead relations.
Understandable request, most likely poorly communicated and certainly to raise cries of censorship from the frenzied masses.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #223,410
9/7/05 11:58:26 AM
|
As opposed to simply not knowing at all?
Hard to say which is worse.
But in any case, I think the public right to know is more important then individual right to privacy.
Though I would be more sympathetic if I thought that trying to protect families was the real motivation here. It strikes me rather as an attempt to protect government officals.
Jay
|
Post #223,417
9/7/05 12:10:04 PM
|
Remind me of that middle statement
when it comes up in a coversation again...which it will :-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #223,421
9/7/05 12:12:51 PM
|
I'm all for it.
Let's start with the list of people Cheney made energy policy with.
apt-get install godlike-powers
|
Post #223,425
9/7/05 12:17:52 PM
|
The last is the most important.
And what, pray tell us Beep, is your excuse for not allowing photographs of the coffins coming in from the ME?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #223,416
9/7/05 12:08:49 PM
8/21/07 6:37:00 AM
|
Plenty easy to shoot w/o identifying victims
not showing faces, etc.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #223,420
9/7/05 12:12:17 PM
|
And in many cases that has already been done
If the specifics of the order are different, I'll recant. And, given how stupid everyone inolved seems to have gotten...I wouldn't be surprised if I end up recanting my objection.
Longstanding tradition, withholding ID until notification. I agree with it then, and now.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #223,423
9/7/05 12:13:56 PM
8/21/07 6:37:14 AM
|
Me too
Most shots of dead I have seen have been face down floaters.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #223,424
9/7/05 12:17:16 PM
|
Doesnt matter
if you can see the face or not. That person is still someone's loved one. No need to traumatize the survivors more just to satisfy the public's morbid curiosity.
|
Post #223,427
9/7/05 12:26:48 PM
|
I think it is the motive for the directive at question.
And there is precedent. Seen any photos of flag draped coffins lately?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #223,436
9/7/05 12:47:13 PM
|
The problem is that
a moral issue has been turned into political issue and at whose expense? Not the politicians. The survivors. The people who have already been through hell and back.
Other than political, what is the benefit of showing these pictures?
|
Post #223,447
9/7/05 1:01:24 PM
|
Nothing. If you don't value truth.
It's EZ for the Red Stater masses to laud the obscenties we commit around the world because they don't see anything around the world. You can't believe how many people in Indiana I've heard say, "It's not that bad down there. The media is just playing this up because they don't like President Bush." I-am-not-joking. I have heard those very words on more than one occasion. Bush supporters have to be hit over the head with a brick repeatedly before they even recognize that they are being hit on the head with a brick. It's easy to support horror if you don't have to look at it.
In a similar vein, by showing the real cost of epic incompetence, perhaps those brainless millions who supported his Moroness will begin to actually *think* about what they are supporting.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #223,430
9/7/05 12:34:39 PM
8/21/07 6:37:33 AM
|
Taking != releasing
I think they should take all the pics they can. Probably be useful some day.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #223,433
9/7/05 12:39:03 PM
9/7/05 12:39:37 PM
|
It's the facts, though.
Why sanitise it? Why not show the vast bovine populace at large that "some of your fellow Americans actually died and here they are"?
It's my firm belief that the real human cost of such events should no be hidden from people, because all too often, these things get reduced to just a number.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Edited by pwhysall
Sept. 7, 2005, 12:39:37 PM EDT
|
Post #223,435
9/7/05 12:44:48 PM
|
Because it's "Un-American".
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #223,438
9/7/05 12:55:02 PM
|
Hey, I enjoy blood and gore as much as the next guy
but we all know people died.
Showing a bunch of dead people floating in a putrid pool of water *does* reduce these victims to nothing but a number. They become just one of the thousands dead.
If you want to bring the point home- show the families grieving over their loved ones. Show the kids who are left orphaned. That will demonstrate the degree of human pain and suffering this disaster has caused much more effectively than showing a bunch of floaters. Or at least it should.
|
Post #223,448
9/7/05 1:02:41 PM
|
Nah, the survivors can eat cake.
Just ask Barbara Bush. They're better off, honest, the President's mother said so.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #223,453
9/7/05 1:14:21 PM
|
Well if mother Bush said so, it must be true!
Of course I understand where you're coming from. I dont disagree that there's a need, but I think it's shameful that we have to use the deceased as bricks to hit people over the head.
|
Post #223,455
9/7/05 1:20:13 PM
|
What a great visual
Beating people over the head with the deceased.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #223,486
9/7/05 3:39:19 PM
|
I think it's a sign of just how bad things have gotten.
|
Post #223,509
9/7/05 5:48:54 PM
|
There is is a line...
between showing what happened and exploitation of people's misery.
Showing people grieving crosses that line IMO. How would you like to have footage of you grieving over your dead kids displayed in the national media?
By contrast showing unidentifiable corpses in the water creates an emotional impact without singling out individual families for national exposure. To me that is far less exploitive.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
|
Post #223,511
9/7/05 5:59:41 PM
|
Well, I disagree
I would much rather have them show me grieving vs. having my kids bodies shown. Even if I was the only one who could identify them, I wouldnt want it. Even if there were unidentifiable, I would know they might be mine, and I wouldnt want it.
But thats just me.
|
Post #223,618
9/7/05 11:59:29 PM
|
Re: Hey, I enjoy blood and gore as much as the next guy
Showing a bunch of dead people floating in a putrid pool of water *does* reduce these victims to nothing but a number. They become just one of the thousands dead. I would say it's exactly the reverse. Without pictures they become nothing but statistics. It's one thing to say that 10,000 died, another to actually see pictures of even a small fraction of them. If you want to bring the point home- show the families grieving over their loved ones. Show the kids who are left orphaned. That will demonstrate the degree of human pain and suffering this disaster has caused much more effectively than showing a bunch of floaters. Or at least it should. My point of view is almost exactly opposite that. As I see it, the grieving families are the only ones with privacy to protect here, and if it where me, the last thing I would want is any of my grief becoming public. I wonder if part of the difference is in your comment about showing pain and suffering. In truth, that is not my primary reason for wanting see what happened in New Orleans. My desire is to know what happened as accuratly as possible. When, where and how did people die? What could have been done better? How do we prevent this from happening again? Those questions can not be answered if we don't have accurate information. And I don't trust the government to gather it or release it on their own. Jay
|
Post #223,418
9/7/05 12:11:27 PM
|
I'm with you on this one
There is a correct way to do death notifications, and seeing a picture of your loved one's corpse in the paper is not it.
Not to mention that it's disrespectful and only serves to sensationalize an already terrible situation.
|
Post #223,636
9/8/05 3:36:34 AM
|
They should take as many pictures as they can!
And no, although Peter may have a point, I'm NOT EVEN arguing that showing this shit NOW is necessarily the right thing to do.
WTF is it with you people -- did none of you see Todd's post, or were you just not able to read (or understand) it?!?
They should take MILLIONS of pictures, and YEARS of video footage, now.
They don't have to SHOW it all in the papers or on TV, yet.
Save that for the follow-up documentaries!
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
|
Post #223,714
9/8/05 5:19:16 PM
9/8/05 5:21:03 PM
|
Exactly
Banning pictures only helps people with something to hide. It's far far better to be really well and truly cognizant of the consequences of neglecting really basic infrastructure. It helps the electorate keep their priorities straight.
It's what pisses me off about the "Taxpayer's Federation of Canada", a conservative lobby group. They pointed out today that the gov't has, in the last seven years, collected 60 billion dollars more than they spent, and say that the government is overcollecting taxes. They neglect to mention that when we run those surpluses, we get to peg off 60G$/7 per year off the total national debt. This means that next year, less and less of our tax money is going to pay on the interest on the accumulated debt (and we've knocked about 9% of the total CDN federal debt in the last seven years), which means that in the long run we are freeing up resources to put to the priorities that we, the electorate of Canada, have, as opposed to the priorities of our creditors. However, the CTF seems to be advocating a cognitive disconnect between the services we receive, the debt we have (and its associated costs) and the taxes we pay. This only makes sense is they are in fact attempting to put us into the position of having to kowtow to the priorities of our creditors rather than ourselves.
Life is sometimes messy, and sometimes it involves painful things. We don't learn from pleasure, we learn from pain, and hiding the pain away from the people's eyes is a good way to ensure that they don't learn from the mistakes of the past. This only makes sense if you are a person who has profited from the mistakes of the past.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by jake123
Sept. 8, 2005, 05:21:03 PM EDT
|
