Post #219,625
8/16/05 6:51:19 PM
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Why?
Around my office we're all pretty happy with the basics. About an even split between Emacs and vim, with one weird person using Visual SlickEdit.
None of us feels the need for anything resembling an IDE. (Though to be fair, the least experienced of us has several years experience programming in Perl, and many more years programming in addition.)
Cheers,
ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #219,626
8/16/05 6:53:17 PM
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Someone here uses Eclipse for Perl.
Autocompletion, stuff like that. Pretty useful if you're not an expert, which he isn't.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #219,630
8/16/05 7:16:29 PM
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You aren't changing my impression...
that for a language like Perl, an IDE is aimed at helping non-experts, not experts.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #219,670
8/17/05 1:19:53 AM
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Instant perldoc, compile-as-you-type, svn support, etc.
I thought I'd just said all that.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #219,782
8/17/05 5:09:09 PM
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And...
we have command prompts with the first and last of those (one of the Emacs users built a lot of support into his Emacs install), and compile-as-you-type sounds to me like a productivity drain since often you *want* to leave stuff broken as you switch around. (When I used VB my number one complaint was that it would force me through a popup every time that I went elsewhere in the code while the current line was incomplete.)
I'd also have performance concerns when dealing with over 100K lines of code.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #219,784
8/17/05 5:14:01 PM
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Re: And...
we have command prompts with the first and last of those (one of the Emacs users built a lot of support into his Emacs install), and compile-as-you-type sounds to me like a productivity drain since often you *want* to leave stuff broken as you switch around. (When I used VB my number one complaint was that it would force me through a popup every time that I went elsewhere in the code while the current line was incomplete.) It sounds like a productivity drain to you, because you're an expert. I'm not, and it's not. I'd also have performance concerns when dealing with over 100K lines of code. So would I! It'd mean I'd be severely not doing my job. Programming is weenywork, and I Don't Do That. Also, if there were 100K lines of code in the file I were dealing with, I'd be hunting down and killing twice the dumbass programmer who generated it.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #219,802
8/17/05 6:23:23 PM
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It was a productivity drain even when I was a beginner
Because I was generally going to look somewhere else for information that I needed to put on that line. Like, say, what a variable was named. Or to select something to cut and paste.
As for 100K lines, that isn't one file. That's across the project. But since a lot of that is in modules that load each other, much of that would always be in memory if you're trying to incrementally recompile.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #219,805
8/17/05 6:28:21 PM
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You Are Not Me
This is the part you are not understanding.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #219,813
8/17/05 6:58:22 PM
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Oh, I understand that
I'm just pointing out a flaw in your theory about which difference between us resulted in a different impression of a specific feature.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #219,857
8/18/05 12:08:09 AM
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I'm puzzled.
Could you explain what theory of mine (apart from the (hopefully) self-evident one that you and I are not the same) has a flaw and why this makes you persist in wondering why I use Eclipse for Perl, despite the fact that I keep answering the question?
I'm serious. You've lost me here.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #219,864
8/18/05 12:55:23 AM
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If you'll notice...
I stopped asking you that question after [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=219784|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=219784]. The theory that I was responding to was your assertion that incremental compiles sound like a productivity drain to me because I'm an expert. That's not true. They sound like a productivity drain because the implementation that I'm most familiar with sucked badly. (Badly enough for me to notice even when I was a novice.)
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #219,790
8/17/05 5:33:20 PM
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FWIW, 175Kloc of Java, no problems in Eclipse or IDEA here
Compile as you type generally means "highlight errors until you fix them", not "impede anything else until you fix them." VB (and VisualAge for Java, for that matter) was stupid about that.
Emacs is an IDE, btw, so saying someone using emacs had SVN support as a way of demonstrating that you don't need an IDE is, well, kinda off the mark.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #219,803
8/17/05 6:26:58 PM
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I think that you'd need language support for that...
to work very well.
Perl doesn't do that. Despite some lip service, I think that Perl 6 won't either. The desire to make hooks available for use by editors is losing to the desire to allow people to do "interesting things" while compiling. (Where interesting can be anything up to and including changing the language on the fly.)
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #219,817
8/17/05 7:51:10 PM
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60Kloc Perl, works fine.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #219,825
8/17/05 8:38:07 PM
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I'll bet it highlights some non-errors as errors.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #219,740
8/17/05 12:40:21 PM
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I've never heard of this language called "addition" ;-)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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