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New Wilson has always claimed that the CIA sent him....
the question is whether or not the VP requested the CIA to do so.

And, to be fair, it is entirely possible that someone lied when they told Wilson that the VP had requested someone to check it out. (Everyone could be telling the truth)



The only aspect of this that IS interesting is to reverse the situation.

Consider this for a moment: You're the VP of the US. You've got a report on Iraq trying to buy yellowcake. The President just made a big deal on this in the State of the Union address. Some idiot claims to have gone to Niger for the CIA and claims that there wasn't any attempt to buy yellowcake.


Do you :
  1. Call your CIA head in and ask what the hell is going on?
  2. Wonder that maybe, just MAYBE your CIA head isn't giving you the full data and call Wilson and find out what's going on?
  3. Close ranks and send out a story to the papers that guy doesn't have all the facts and try to quell the story?


Apparently Rove and company choose 3....and unfortuately for the US, no one actually wondered whether or not we had bad intelligence.
New I'd rather avoid the hypotheticals myself.
There's too little known and too much he-said/they-said in this case.

From the excerpt and my skimming of the rest of the Senate report, it seems that Cheney didn't insist for a followup on the Iraq-Niger report. Why? I don't know. The tone of the Senate report is that Wilson's trip didn't really add any thing new to what was already known and/or suspected.

AFAIK, Wilson was only attacked after he went to the Post with his story - a story that was wrong in the very least in many, possibly minor, details.

According to the Senate report (above), the Niger uranium story first came to the attention of the CIA on October 15, 2001. There was a second report to the CIA with more details on February 5, 2002. The CIA wrote a report about it on February 12, 2002 and Cheney read it. The same day Cheney asked for more information and Plame wrote a memo suggesting Wilson. He left for Niger on February 21, 2002. He arrived on February 26, 2002.

The State Department intelligence agency (INR) prepared a report on March 1, 2002 titled, "Niger: Sale of Uranium to Iraq is Unlikely." The CIA disagreed with that assessment.

Cheney requested more information on the Iraq-Niger issue in "early March". Cheney was updated and Wilson was debriefed on March 5, 2002. Wilson's report was distributed on March 8, 2002.

The British government report stating that Iraq had tried to buy uranium in Africa was dated September 24, 2002.

The fake Niger uranium documents were given to the US Embassy in Rome on October 9, 2002. The INR immediately thought they were fake. They were distributed to the CIA and other agencies, but were filed away and nothing more was done with them there.

November 22, 2002 there was a meeting with a French intelligence official who said they believed they had reliable information indicating Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Niger.

Wilson was the source for the June 12, 2003 Washington Post [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A46957-2003Jun11?language=printer|article] by Walter Pincus. (It's dated June 13 in the Senate report.)

Novak's [link|http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20030714.shtml|article] on Wilson and Plame was July 14, 2003.

---

Obviously, none of us were there and we didn't see what happened when. And there are ways to make even a saint look like he's being shifty or lying. But I'm inclined to take the Senate report at face value.

A lot of the reporting on the Iraq uranium story has been terribly muddled. A lot of the reporting (including Pincus's) seems to indicate that the reporter believed that since the Niger documents in Rome were fake, then there was no evidence that Saddam wanted uranium from Niger (or somewhere else in Africa). I believe, and I think the Senate report gives some weight to the belief, Saddam was looking for ways to get uranium from Africa, but that it never went beyond initial probing.

It seems to me that Pincus's article makes it clear that Wilson helped throw the first bucket of mud in this particular scandal. He and a couple of other unnamed officials made lots of damning claims. Someone or some group at the White House fought back in an extremely dirty way. But Wilson's hands aren't clean. Subsequent [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html|reports] in the press have pointed out inconsistencies his story.

So, in summary, I agree with Beep. Rove should go (even if he didn't do the leaking initially), and anyone else in the White House involved in planting the story about Plame should go too. I don't think that they could be convicted (due to the very narrow way the rule is written), but they shouldn't be serving in a position of trust in the US government.

I sure hope the Grand Jury finishes up soon.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Be very careful
So, in summary, I agree with Beep.


You better read the talking points memo now. You'll be expected to quote it verbatim;-P
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Actually, I agree also.
Odds are very good Rove won't go to jail. But twisting your tail is ever so much fun. I happen to think you picked up on the wrong technicality though. My guess is that they will use the defense that since Rove wasn't *authorized* to be privy to this info and that the law says one who is *authorized* to know this can't release it, he will slither out of this like the snake he is. I hope that he is hung out to dry for the several other laws he most likely violated though. Even that is really a pipe dream since Crusader Bunnypants will give him a pardon for any and all crimes he has ever committed.
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken

Support our troops, Impeach Bush.
D. D. Richards
New I tend to agree.
but my point 3 isn't a hypothetical.

Everyone seems to agree that Rove was talking to Cooper in an attempt to get him NOT to run the story. (In fact, that's a defense of Rove, that he was attempting to stop a leak)

The point being is that regardless of how you feel about Wilson, it was an opportunity to reflect on the quality of the intelligence at that point. That is not the choice that the administration made at that point.

And, of course, ultimately the administration complained about the quality of intelligence in finding WMD.
New Had to blame someone. Can't admit a mistake, you know. ;-)
     Rove spoke with reporter about Plame - (admin) - (99)
         Nasty press conference - (admin) - (1)
             But will this actually get play in the media? -NT - (ben_tilly)
         But he didn't name names. - (marlowe) - (18)
             Utterly transparent - (JayMehaffey)
             Technicality: "Wilson's Wife" is a pretty fair substitute - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                 The question may well reduce to, - (Ashton) - (6)
                     It's really a moot point. - (jbrabeck) - (5)
                         First, need to convict the president. -NT - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                             President Cheney? <shudder> -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                 And his accomplices - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                     Logic! _____what hath happened to thy sting.. -NT - (Ashton)
                             Else he gets an immediate pardon -NT - (ben_tilly)
             Ah yesss... - (Ashton)
             I know who Marlowe is! parrot party line, check - (boxley) - (6)
                 Nicely done, Box! -NT - (jb4)
                 In defense of my pseudonymity... - (marlowe) - (4)
                     :-) the part that clued me in was a rant about Rove - (boxley) - (1)
                         Just goes to show how low Hannity will stoop - (jb4)
                     Better stay on Rove's good side... - (ChrisR) - (1)
                         Rove would never out me. - (marlowe)
             on not naming names (new thread) - (rcareaga)
         I don't care if he's fired...I want jail time! - (jb4) - (77)
             Good luck. Here's the Wall Street Journal's take... - (hnick) - (10)
                 Anonymous author? - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                     Don't need a name on that one - (JayMehaffey) - (5)
                         Nit but likely not minor - (bepatient) - (1)
                             I guess it's possible - (JayMehaffey)
                         Isn't nepotism a hangable offense? - (ChrisR) - (2)
                             Nah..its ok here. - (bepatient) - (1)
                                 (ref. B. Ebbers) - (jb4)
                     Probably James Taranto - (Another Scott)
                 Did you see "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" on 7/13/05? - (imqwerky) - (1)
                     Linky. - (Another Scott)
             You wont get it becasue he didn't break that law - (bepatient) - (65)
                 How do you pick up the talking points memo so quickly? - (Silverlock) - (9)
                     Prefer to listen to those who wrote the law. - (bepatient) - (8)
                         You're kidding right? - (Silverlock) - (7)
                             You must be - (bepatient) - (6)
                                 C'mon BeeP, you (of all people) know better than that - (jb4) - (2)
                                     And there isn't any - (bepatient) - (1)
                                         But there will be - (jb4)
                                 Let's assume the authors of this piece are non-partisan - (Silverlock) - (2)
                                     That first section is incorrect. - (bepatient) - (1)
                                         Re: That first section is incorrect. - (JayMehaffey)
                 Her classmate disagrees - (tuberculosis) - (54)
                     Lemme get this straight... - (jb4) - (53)
                         Yep - (bepatient) - (52)
                             Maybe we should wait until the grand jury is done? - (Another Scott) - (51)
                                 Reminescent of Whitewater? -NT - (ChrisR)
                                 Why do that? - (bepatient) - (49)
                                     Fits his MO, done it before, leopards, spots, ya ya ya -NT - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                         Yep..and same result should apply. - (bepatient) - (1)
                                             I would add jail -NT - (tuberculosis)
                                     I assume that was pointed at me. - (Silverlock) - (45)
                                         Good assumption - (bepatient) - (44)
                                             "who wrote the law" - (Silverlock) - (43)
                                                 where is the definition of "covert agent"? -NT - (boxley) - (42)
                                                     Try dictionary.com or google or findlaw -NT - (Silverlock) - (41)
                                                         lets ask the cia - (boxley) - (40)
                                                             Already been discounted - (Silverlock) - (39)
                                                                 Here - (bepatient) - (38)
                                                                     That definition might fit. - (ben_tilly) - (37)
                                                                         Ah, the key... - (Simon_Jester) - (36)
                                                                             The ripple effect is huge - (broomberg) - (3)
                                                                                 And there is no question... - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                 Watching too many movies Barry - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                     Nope, just CIA torture manuals - (broomberg)
                                                                             We know what she worked on. - (Another Scott) - (31)
                                                                                 Stop that - (bepatient) - (30)
                                                                                     I've wondered why Rove is still around. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                         Bite your tongue - (bepatient)
                                                                                     I don't understand you - (Silverlock) - (27)
                                                                                         This is all partisan - (bepatient) - (26)
                                                                                             Hey Beep: $200MM == 1 day in Iraq - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                                                 Instant justification? :-/ -NT - (bepatient)
                                                                                             Whatever. - (Silverlock) - (23)
                                                                                                 Are you that dense? - (bepatient) - (18)
                                                                                                     Part of the larger picture - (ChrisR) - (3)
                                                                                                         No quibbles here. -NT - (bepatient)
                                                                                                         Well said. - (imqwerky) - (1)
                                                                                                             Must disclose that reviewer has nepotistic ties... - (ChrisR)
                                                                                                     I guess I must be - (Silverlock) - (13)
                                                                                                         Fine - (bepatient) - (12)
                                                                                                             Transcript? - (Silverlock) - (10)
                                                                                                                 No. - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                     ICLRPD (new thread) - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                                                 Senate Intelligence Committee report. Long excerpt. - (Another Scott) - (7)
                                                                                                                     Yeah, but... - (bepatient)
                                                                                                                     Wilson has always claimed that the CIA sent him.... - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
                                                                                                                         I'd rather avoid the hypotheticals myself. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                                                                                             Be very careful - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                                 Actually, I agree also. - (Silverlock)
                                                                                                                             I tend to agree. - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                                                                                                                 Had to blame someone. Can't admit a mistake, you know. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                             big banner on the top, neutrality of this page disputed :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                                 so rove is guilty, why shouldnt he get the same punishment - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                                     Lost his clearance. That would mean Rove would have to go. -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                                                                         nope he is a political architect not a spymaster -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                             I'd be very surprised if he didn't have a secret clearance. - (Another Scott)

Oh my God! They killed Kenny!
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