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New That's *one* of the people you want testing
People who want to find errors will tend to look for the type of things programmers don't like worrying about, like validating all user input. Tedious be necessary. But a good programmer will eventually learn that it has to be done, if for no other reason than that the tester will catch it.

The ones you want are the "random strangeness" people. The ones who will do something completely unanticipated. The things that even an experienced tester would never imagine someone would try to do. The ones who are so thick they will continue to do things you've told them not to do. In other words, a user.

Which leads to another actual conversation I had, just last week.

There is a customer account configuration module. One of the options in it is a checkbox marked "Inactive". If this box is checked, the customer can still log on to the extranet to track the status of their live orders, but they can not place any new orders. Internal usres also can not place new orders for the customer on the intranet.

We have a request from accounting to add an option for "Do Not Invoice". This was driven from an incident where there was a legal action with one of our soon-to-be former customers. The billing person contacted all the field offices and told them they had 30 days to process any outstanding invoicing and submit it. A final bill would be submitted, and the customer would be inactivated. Thirty days later, the bill is submitted, and the customer is inactivated. Then a user notices an unreleased invoice and releases it. Billing catches it, but wants a way to prevent this problem.

So far it seems strightforward, yes? Well I asked a simple question. If we can't invoice the customer, we probably don't want to take any new orders for them. So should I automatically inactivate the customer if "Do Not Invoice" is checked?

No, says billing. Because their practice is to give 30 days notice before inactivating a customer. They want to give the field offices time to release invoicing before inactivation. I pointed out that "Inactive" never prevented invoicing, and no one has suggested that it should. So they can mark an account "Inactive", thus preventing new orders, as soon as we decide we're cutting them off. Then 30 days later we can mark the account "Do Not Invoice". No, says billing again. They have to give them time to release the invoices before inactivating the account.

I tried (again) to point out that "Inactive" does not mean that you can't release invoices. It only means don't place new orders. "But if they're inactive, we shouldn't place orders or do the work or bill them or anything!" Wait, now you're talking about halting Vendor Assignment on existing open orders. In other words, don't assign anyone to do the work on open orders if the customer account is inactivated. That's an operational question completely outside the billing person's area of authority or responsibility.

After 1/2-hour on the phone, I just could not get through to her that "Inactive" only only only ONLY means do not place new orders. It has NO FUCKING EFFECT WHATSOEVER ON PROCESSING OPEN ORDERS OR RELEASING INVOICING!

...

So we're going to add a checkbox for "Do Not Invoice". And the next time this happens, the billing person will call all the service centers and tell them that they have 30 days to release any pending invoices for the customer. Then she will go into the customer maintenance module, and check the "Inactive" and "Do Not Invoice" checkboxes.
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Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New I'm reminded of an old story
There was a QA person whose first test was to load the program, take both fists, and pound the keyboard. Almost inevitably, the program would crash. The developer would inevitably have a look of utter horror and would say, Nobody would really do that! The response? You don't have a two year old, do you?

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Bwahahahaaa
for a while, I had to keep my servers in a quasi public area. I always loved it when my son would get in the room and push the reset button so he could see the lights on the front of the box flash:)
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
     $whore++ - (drewk) - (31)
         Hey, maybe it'll work - (broomberg) - (22)
             I've got this theory - (drewk) - (17)
                 We'll see what really happens - (broomberg)
                 Argument strength - (tuberculosis) - (15)
                     Isn't that statement too strong? - (Another Scott) - (14)
                         You're both right - (drewk)
                         Not entirely mistaken - (hnick) - (1)
                             Well...that true, if - (jb4)
                         Developers. Testing. Same sentence. - (pwhysall) - (6)
                             Actual conversation *had* at work - (drewk) - (4)
                                 Preach it, brother. -NT - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                     While I'm on the topic - (drewk) - (1)
                                         You worked for the Pentagon, right? _____________________;-j -NT - (Another Scott)
                                 I have to deal with that all the time >:-P - (imric)
                             Heh. Ben didn't call me Pollyanna for nothing. :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                         You are, indeed, mistaken - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                             That's *one* of the people you want testing - (drewk) - (2)
                                 I'm reminded of an old story - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                     Bwahahahaaa - (jake123)
             I think it's just the opposite - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                 That attitude may be WHY you can't do it very well - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                     Well, it's been 2 years since I worked with good QA people -NT - (Arkadiy)
             Sorry, dupe -NT - (Arkadiy)
         It seems to just roll off your tongue... - (folkert)
         Sounds like a nice challenge. Congrats! -NT - (Another Scott)
         On a deal like that - (tuberculosis)
         So where do we line up... - (ben_tilly) - (3)
             Can't happen - (drewk) - (2)
                 Here's what I think you're expecting... - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                     Heh, good point - (drewk)
         Confession is good for the soul. :) - (a6l6e6x)

Hey, you sass that hoopy Ford Prefect?
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