No it isn't.

Post #189,767 by mmoffitt 1/11/05 12:51:49 PM Reply	No it isn't. Now if you'd said, ..leads them to conclude that we must destroy the world to save it... then I'd be inclined to agree. And if they're inclined to act on that thought, then I'd prefer them to wind up in jail or an insane asylum. They (the fundies) are not in charge. Remember? This is God's plan. And if to a True Believer it is God's plan to destroy the world, what exactly do you suspect said True Believer to do to slow or stop the destruction? Right. Nothing. The real difference between us is that you only condemn active destruction, while I additionally condemn passively (and gleefully) allowing the destruction to occur. And having my position is far from wrong-headed. By your reasoning a parent who withholds medical treatment for their child out of some idiotic religious conviction is guilty of nothing. The parent did not "actively" cause the disease/trauma/whatever. In this case, your position cries out to defend the parent even more - they didn't even want their child to be ill, while the aforementioned Christian is actually looking forward to the end of the world. Strikes me that our hypothetical parent is a more sympathetic character. And you call my position "wrong-headed"? Feh. bcnu, Mikem Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer. (Just trying to be accepted in the New America)
Post #189,782 by ben_tilly 1/11/05 2:51:11 PM Reply	And you remain wrong My reasoning does not lead where you claim that it does. My reasoning leads to saying that people who believe that their kids should not get medical care should be allowed to participate in the political system. I disagree with them. If they violate the law, then I advocate charging them. But if I'm willing to accept that people whose opinions I don't like shouldn't be allowed to participate, then why should I expect that I should be allowed to participate? (More people are likely to abhor my beliefs than theirs...) Again, be very careful before you advocate throwing out democracy. No matter how much you may dislike the current state, the odds are that whomever leads a change like that will be worse. A lot worse. It would be cliche to point to past examples like Napoleon, Hitler, and Stalin. Cliche but true. For a current example, well if there was support for discarding democracy in this country, guess who would be likely to wind up as dictator? You got it, the commander in chief of the military, who has substantial support both within our military and within the states from whose ranks the military is overwhelmingly drawn. Think about that before suggesting anything idiotic. For the record, were I to be forced to choose at the moment between giving power to you or George Bush, I'd choose Bush. As much as I hate him and he scares me, he hasn't said or advocated anything (yet) that I see as causing irreparable harm to the principle of American democracy. You, on the other hand, have. And, as tradition will have it, this is all that I have to say you on this topic. Unless you come up with something stunningly novel, I'm not going to bother responding to you any more on this topic because you and everyone present know what I would say well enough that I don't need to bother saying it. Regards, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #189,785 by pwhysall 1/11/05 2:54:30 PM Reply	OT: Branch this, please. The right-shift is killing me. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #189,805 by mmoffitt 1/11/05 4:10:52 PM Reply	The arrogance of youth. A question != advocacy. Emphasis added to help the reader. Democracy might be globally too dangerous. ... a strict dictatorship of the people might be a better option. Provided that dictatorship is not based upon some medieval superstitious religion of fear. And now for something completely different, Ben's misrepresentation of what I said: Again, be very careful before you advocate throwing out democracy. For the record, were I to be forced to choose at the moment between giving power to you or George Bush, I'd choose Bush. As much as I hate him and he scares me, he hasn't said or advocated anything (yet) that I see as causing irreparable harm to the principle of American democracy. You, on the other hand, have. Ah yes, I've irreparably harmed American democracy by ..... expressing an idea. An idea so heinous that I dare not repeat it more than once: "People who look forward to the destruction of life on the planet should not be in power." Unadulterated blasphemy, that's what it is. Now, I'm done. bcnu, Mikem Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer. (Just trying to be accepted in the New America)

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