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New There are good and evil non-believers too. ;-)
I don't want to go too much more into my beliefs than I've already said (above and elsewhere).

Cheers,
Scott.
New Oh, I agree
But, the difference is the true believers believe the non-believers are going to hell. That they are evil by definition of not believing. So a believer essentially has 2 choices. Convert the non-bliever to be a believer, which in turn "saves" them from going to hell. Or kill them, since you can't allow evil to continue to live and then inflict it's evil on to everything else.
New Wrong
Dunno about Christianity, but in Judais, "evil" is something that must be left alone. If you can't make good out of it, don't touch it.
--


- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.

[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]

New It depends...
on the belief system. In yours it is wrong, ditto for many Christians. But history shows that many Christians think (or at least can be brought to act as if they think) as broomberg suggests.

How do you think that feels for non-believers like me?

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Are you defining "true believers"
as those that believe that all nonbelievers go to hell?

because I truly believe.

I don't believe THAT.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New If the dogma includes hell
And you don't believe in it, then you are not a true believer.
New *sigh* "The Dogma"?
So - The Witnesses aren't true believers, then?

That will come as a shock to everybody they annoy as they go from door to door.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New I dunno
I didn't say YOUR religion believed in hell. I merely said if "the dogma" of the religion which you claim to be a believer included hell, and you don't believe in hell, then you are not a true believer.
New "the difference is the true believers believe
the non-believers are going to hell."

My point here is that even among fundamentalist groups, not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour does not automatically consign you to Hell. Implying that not believing in eternal torment at the hands of a merciful God means that you aren't a true believer is unfair. It's more than unfair; it's insulting to those Christians that DON'T believe that a merciful God torments human souls forever.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New link
[link|http://www.religioustolerance.org/heav_hel3.htm|http://www.religious...org/heav_hel3.htm]
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
New {chortle}
Pick from the smorg\ufffdsbord - *anyone* can call self a 'Christian', claim Certainty and possess The One Truth [Which YOU Don't]

cha.cha.cha.




I hear ... screaming neurons, afraid they can't shut off the bafflegab machine in time!
New Heck, even CRC calls himself Christian! :)
Alex

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
New Merely existense og hell
does not gurantee that every non-believer goes there. The Devil is in the details :)
--


- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.

[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]

New Ha! :-)
New Love. It.
A masterfully terse piece of logic.

Except.. I've never met any two 'Christians' who have excerpted the exact same assortment of (personally) 'acceptable' tenets amidst all the contradictory, variously translated/transliterated/edited mass of the Testaments I & II.

Perpetual-Out: "Well, I don't buy That interpretation, because in __ C __ V __ there's ..."
Bulletproof.

(Why, Leviticus alone can empty a whole bottle of White-out\ufffd, without even cracking the cover on the sci-fi parts in that currently Popular section, now a Novelist's $mine)



Nice try, though :-)
     "Kind of a Shame" - article - (dmcarls) - (163)
         Also linked there - - (Ashton) - (162)
             Right... - (bepatient) - (157)
                 Ha! - (imric) - (156)
                     Wrong. - (bepatient) - (155)
                         Keep telling yourself that - (GBert) - (2)
                             What evidence? - (bepatient) - (1)
                                 I have no evidence myself - (GBert)
                         Oh. So Kerry bullied Bush. Bwahahaha! - (imric) - (151)
                             Interesting. - (bepatient) - (150)
                                 Listen to YOU. - (imric) - (147)
                                     I don't think you understand. - (bepatient) - (146)
                                         I do - (SpiceWare) - (1)
                                             Not wrong. - (bepatient)
                                         And I know you don't. - (imric) - (143)
                                             The pity is that there will be. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                             Well, you're meeting wrong people. - (Arkadiy) - (141)
                                                 With her vote, she hates the Constitution more. :-( -NT - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                     Thanks for continuing to make my point. -NT - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                         Q 4 U. - (mmoffitt)
                                                         yep... - (Simon_Jester) - (2)
                                                             Well they could have... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                 I thought.... - (Simon_Jester)
                                                 Mmm hmm. - (imric) - (134)
                                                     Answers - (Arkadiy) - (133)
                                                         Fair enough. - (imric) - (2)
                                                             It's a free country. You're entitled to your own opinion. - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                 ROFL. Hate? - (imric)
                                                         "lesser evil"?????? - (mmoffitt) - (129)
                                                             Why don't you link to that quote. - (bepatient) - (128)
                                                                 Why would one require a 'link' to a tenet which - (Ashton)
                                                                 Time crunch. Edited for those w/attention spans of Mayflies. - (mmoffitt) - (125)
                                                                     Ahhh...so - (bepatient) - (124)
                                                                         Beep? - (imric) - (3)
                                                                             Izzat - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                 ..and some love their little dog, Blondi -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                 PERSONALLY, I don't think it's relevent. to the job - (imric)
                                                                         So Herman's lying. Wait, lemme guess.... - (mmoffitt) - (119)
                                                                             so we had a choice between going to hell and - (daemon) - (118)
                                                                                 WTF? Your medication getting low again? - (mmoffitt) - (117)
                                                                                     your implication of the tendancies of a born again christian - (daemon) - (116)
                                                                                         I c. But, I haven't found anything that suggests Kerry ... - (mmoffitt) - (115)
                                                                                             It's funny - (imric)
                                                                                             I think you're making too much of that. - (Another Scott) - (113)
                                                                                                 That was Presidential Candidate Bush. - (mmoffitt) - (112)
                                                                                                     Some of the best people you'd ever meet are born again. - (Another Scott) - (39)
                                                                                                         Ahh, the critical statement - (broomberg) - (15)
                                                                                                             There are good and evil non-believers too. ;-) - (Another Scott) - (14)
                                                                                                                 Oh, I agree - (broomberg) - (13)
                                                                                                                     Wrong - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                                                                         It depends... - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                                                     Are you defining "true believers" - (imric) - (10)
                                                                                                                         If the dogma includes hell - (broomberg) - (9)
                                                                                                                             *sigh* "The Dogma"? - (imric) - (8)
                                                                                                                                 I dunno - (broomberg) - (7)
                                                                                                                                     "the difference is the true believers believe - (imric) - (3)
                                                                                                                                         link - (daemon) - (2)
                                                                                                                                             {chortle} - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 Heck, even CRC calls himself Christian! :) -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                                                                                                                                     Merely existense og hell - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         Ha! :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                                                     Love. It. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                         Beg to differ. - (mmoffitt) - (22)
                                                                                                             The problem is your bigotry. - (imric) - (14)
                                                                                                                 Pretty loose slathering of 'bigotry', - (Ashton) - (13)
                                                                                                                     I call Strawman - (Arkadiy)
                                                                                                                     bigotry: n - (imric) - (11)
                                                                                                                         ICLRPD (new thread) - (bepatient)
                                                                                                                         Oh Pshaw - - (Ashton) - (9)
                                                                                                                             A+B+C=mmoffit, ash. Like it or not. - (imric) - (8)
                                                                                                                                 Re: A+B+C=mmoffit, ash. Like it or not. - (bepatient) - (7)
                                                                                                                                     Pope's OK - unlikely ever to drop a nuke. The others ??? -NT - (Ashton) - (6)
                                                                                                                                         Pope is very happy that you aprove of him. -NT - (Arkadiy)
                                                                                                                                         Remember the bumper sticker? - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                                             nuke all the unborn gay whales, revisionist stickerman you -NT - (daemon) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                 I got yer sticker raght cheer. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                     great I ordered 2, what kind of car you got again? :-) -NT - (daemon) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                         On a car in Indiana, those will get you shot! -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                             See 62232 and 65768. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                                                                                                 Example - (broomberg) - (1)
                                                                                                                     :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                                 There was a difference in 1975. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                     I am not a born again - (daemon) - (1)
                                                                                                                         Re: I am not a born again - (bepatient)
                                                                                                                 Unclear on the baggage mix. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                     Right. - (bepatient) - (70)
                                                                                                         1600 of our militia know he is dangerous. - (mmoffitt) - (69)
                                                                                                             Nice subject change - (bepatient) - (68)
                                                                                                                 <sigh> - (mmoffitt) - (67)
                                                                                                                     Thanks for clearing that up. -NT - (bepatient)
                                                                                                                     So those that do not believe as you do should be banned - (imric) - (59)
                                                                                                                         Not at all. - (mmoffitt) - (58)
                                                                                                                             Bah. Ideology Police? Thought Police? - (imric) - (57)
                                                                                                                                 Almost. - (mmoffitt) - (51)
                                                                                                                                     But only >certain< people. - (bepatient)
                                                                                                                                     Oh. Instead your dictatorship would be based upon - (imric) - (49)
                                                                                                                                         Reduced to its simplest form. - (mmoffitt) - (48)
                                                                                                                                             Maybe not. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 In point of fact, you may be correct. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                             wow, excludes communists, hindoo's, muslims christians - (daemon) - (12)
                                                                                                                                                 You are killing me. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                                                                                                                                     ya sure you want to go there? - (daemon) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                         That's not exactly calling for it. More like lamenting. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                             you mean lamentations 1-5? :-) -NT - (daemon)
                                                                                                                                                         BTW, thanks for the link. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                                     Oh Mike, Mike - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                         I've never apologized for being me ;-) - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                             As Ben pointed out - (Arkadiy) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                                 But you assume Capitalism == the world. And it doesn't ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                     And you assume that this weary existance is "world" ;o) -NT - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                         I yield to the better argument ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                                                         Tilt. Error 666: metaphysical change-of-scale. -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                             Bull. - (imric) - (21)
                                                                                                                                                 Just watch ONE Jack Van Emp television show. Just one. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                     Give details. Quote fact. - (imric) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                         It's Impe, btw. Sorry. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                             Bah. Looking forward is NOT 'to bring it about' - (imric) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                 See my first 2 paragraphs of my reply to Ben. (link) - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                     Rationalize all you want. - (imric)
                                                                                                                                                 uh, sorry to burst your bubble - (daemon) - (14)
                                                                                                                                                     Never heard one. - (imric) - (13)
                                                                                                                                                         Enough to elect Dubya. And that is too damned many. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                             So he was elected to 'destroy the world'? Pfah. -NT - (imric) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                 If he was, he's succeeding. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                                         demographics - (daemon) - (9)
                                                                                                                                                             OK - that's 1 number. - (imric) - (8)
                                                                                                                                                                 Here's another number. - (a6l6e6x) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                                     And how many are urged to bring about the conditions - (imric) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                                         At least this one: - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                             Oh dear...will lithium help? - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                 (Seems to be only enough for the Red States, currently) -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                         I predicted something once. After I saw Bigfoot. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                         Is it Evil to allow destruction when you can prevent it? -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                                                         if its time to push the button it gets pushed, or not - (daemon)
                                                                                                                                             Now there's a wrong-headed philosophy - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                                                                                                                                                 No it isn't. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                     And you remain wrong - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                         OT: Branch this, please. - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                                         The arrogance of youth. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                                 Re: Now there's a wrong-headed ... lateral arabesque? - (Ashton) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                     The point you may have missed - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                         I understand your point. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                             Mike, listen to yourself. - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                 Sorry. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                                             Moving on ---> to metaphysics and The non-Spotless Mind (new thread) - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                 he is a neoconn, just a little left of them thats all :-) -NT - (daemon) - (4)
                                                                                                                                     It's a ring thing - (Arkadiy)
                                                                                                                                     I am not a Bolshevik! - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         bolshevits maybe? - (daemon) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Sign me up ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                     Banned how? - (ben_tilly) - (5)
                                                                                                                         Executed as illegal combatants, perhaps? </sarcasm> - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                             Nope, all we need is Das Kapital - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                                                                                 Nope. What is to be done? ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                         Banned in mmofitt's dreams - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                                                                             Indeed. More is the pity. :-( -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                     Just to clarify. - (Another Scott)
                                                                 No link from me but - (lincoln)
                                 Applause. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                     If we ever meet at Beep's - (daemon)
             Sometimes a crumb falls... - (dmcarls) - (3)
                 100% predictable.. a mere bagatelle - (Ashton) - (2)
                     So true... - (bepatient) - (1)
                         Wow! a blizzard of sententious sonnets - (Ashton)

No, you didn't. You came here for an argument!
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