amend in what way?

Post #187,607 by daemon 12/20/04 9:08:38 PM Reply	amend in what way? currently congress has the ability to "Declare War" However the Executive Branch has complete control of foreign policy except in the case of treaties which must be ratified by the senate. So any action short of calling it a war is solely the preserve of the president, correctly in my view. regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #187,610 by JayMehaffey 12/20/04 9:22:53 PM Reply	That is nice in theory That is nice in theory, but we have now reached the point where the President can order the army to invade another country, overthrow the government and install one of our choice, without declaring a war. So what does holding the right to declare war to Congres prevent now? Jay
Post #187,703 by daemon 12/21/04 5:02:13 PM Reply	well they keep appropriating money for Iraq they didnt like Reagan in Hobduras and prohibited any spending on it and dam near got Bush1 impeached over it. regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #187,727 by JayMehaffey 12/21/04 8:38:05 PM Reply	Wrong counterbalance Congress's control of the budget does act as a counter for the President's ability to go to war by fiat now. But that is the wrong counterbalance. Congress can do that only because they do to much over detailing of the budget anyway, and it's a reactive, not proactive block. Rather then asking for permission in the first place, the President is instead asking for forgiveness in the budget afterwards. That is a bit too late when talking about a war. Jay
Post #187,736 by daemon 12/21/04 9:25:51 PM Reply	EXCUSE ME! the farkin president asked for congressional permission and got it before invading Iraq, the pussies gave it to him and he used it. Even Kerry voted to let him invade if he wanted to. Dont place all the blame on the president he had lots of help getting in there. Now its fucked up and everyone is placing the blame on him and his minions alone. Count who voted to let him invade, then count who voted against then report back. regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #187,871 by a6l6e6x 12/22/04 4:54:02 PM Reply	To do otherwise would have been unpatriotic. "You are either with us or you are against us!" Of course, our congresscritters are supposed to have some balls. Alex The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #187,881 by inthane-chan 12/22/04 5:33:34 PM Reply	They've got fewer balls than a lesbian convention.
Post #187,938 by Simon_Jester 12/23/04 10:54:10 AM Reply	So, you're saying either a) The President was wrong, but he had lots of help, so it doesn't matter that he's the commander-in-chief.... the buck stops with Congress. b) That the people in Congress who vote against the war were the really smart ones. (Shouldn't their names be praised for their insight? Can you name them?)
Post #187,959 by jb4 12/23/04 1:13:35 PM Reply	Shouldn't be too hard to name them... ...there weren't that many of them who had a clue... jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #188,011 by daemon 12/23/04 6:23:05 PM Reply	the question is for Jay :-) that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #188,080 by Simon_Jester 12/24/04 8:37:34 AM Reply	But Jay's holding the President's feet to the fire... and, traditionally speaking, that's how it's always been done. Traditionally, Congress is never held responsible. Probably because Congress isn't the Commander-in-Chief.
Post #188,091 by JayMehaffey 12/24/04 11:37:06 AM Reply	Congress is the lesser party here Congress is guilty of the disaster in Iraq, but only as a secondary party. Their responsibly lies is their abdicating of their responsiblity, by giving the President nearly unconditional authority to use the military. But it wasn't Congress that actually ordered the military into Iraq. I don't buy the copout that some in Congress are trying to use, when they say they gave Bush the authority to go to invade only so he would have a strong threat. I will give them a little sympathy when they say they where decieved by bad intelligence, but even there Congress should have known better. Jay
Post #188,092 by daemon 12/24/04 11:38:43 AM Reply	just because you have a useless congress is no excuse for changing the constitution. regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #188,134 by Simon_Jester 12/25/04 8:41:15 AM Reply	or ignoring the failures of a useless President.
Post #188,137 by daemon 12/25/04 10:18:31 AM Reply	correct the constitution will withstand both that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #188,391 by GBert 12/28/04 11:53:11 AM 1/3/05 1:12:26 PM Reply	I do buy it I do buy the "copout" that they gave the authority so as not to undermine the President's hand in forcing Saddam to allow real inspections, since this is what they said at the time. This is also what I believed was going on since it was the only thing that made any sense of the administration's course of action. In retrospect, we was had. And I still can't find a sensible explanation. My only hope now is that we can see our way to outsourcing our military presence in Iraq to Chinese mercenaries. Maybe Walmart can negotiate with Chinese captains of industry to get one able bodied volunteer along with every container of goods... [on edit -- oh me of little faith -- there is more bitterness in Truth and Fact, Giovannio, than is vented of in your sarcacity. [link\|http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/23/1541224\|Amy Goodman interviews Geoff Thale], senior associate for Central America and Cuba at the Washington Office on Latin America, about ongoing paramilitary recruiting campaigns by the big Iraq contractors in Latin America. -- end edit] Giovanni Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for. You don't need George Bush for that. Edited by GBert Jan. 3, 2005, 01:12:26 PM EST Expand All History
Post #188,412 by Ashton 12/28/04 3:32:27 PM Reply	As to that 'vote of confidence' Does anyone else wonder if a single Congresscritter ever bothered to type in [link\|http://www.newamericancentury.org/\|http://www.newamericancentury.org/] before signing that Blank Check? You'd think that just a few names there, would be recognized.. along with the script they were about to activate. Maybe not.
Post #189,198 by Ashton 1/6/05 3:42:59 AM Reply	By Jove - you called it! While our smartly coiffed (near-bald) and lint-free clad Recruiters target the desperate.. who today, must weigh the dangled chance for an eventual ed-ja-Kay-shun- - -IF- - -they-Survive: > Outsourcing Has Begun < (Suppose they get ed-ja-Kay-shun perks, too - as busboys, perhaps?) One does love an Admin which is so consistent, has planned better for the Permanent War than for - that initial couple of test invasions.
Post #187,625 by Ashton 12/20/04 10:54:57 PM Reply	So then.. you favor euphemisms. Too? As in, the "Korean 'police action'" ... which opened that Pandora box right on through the Contras/Freedom Fighters -as- Founding Fathers, a few dozen others like Chile. And on to the latest i-Quag. Language murder. Sounds a lot like - - Love-the-sinner/Hate-the-sin? ('sin' being noncorporeal and all, so ya gets ta HATE IT Guilt-free. cha cha cha) As Jay points out, just what is this War Power which Congress "still" "has"? Pshaw
Post #187,704 by daemon 12/21/04 5:04:41 PM Reply	Boxer rebellion manilla action against the muslim insurgents by black jack pershing Japan1 hawaii wounded knee etc. Goes back further than Korea regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #187,655 by tuberculosis 12/21/04 12:01:35 PM Reply	Suppose we make it clearer that our military cannot do more than defend itself without permission of congress. The constitution grants Congress the power: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; Letters of Marque and Reprisal harks back to the use of privateers and are for tit for tat acts of aggression short of full war. This seems to make clear that the military's ability to mount offensives is meant to remain in the hands of congress and the present state of aggression is quite unconstitutional. So I think this bit of language (and the granting of commander in chief to the president) needs a bit of clarification to put the decision to attack squarely back in the hands of congress where it belongs. "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #187,705 by daemon 12/21/04 5:05:31 PM Reply	All congress has to do is cut the purse strings no money honey no troops on the ground. regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #187,753 by tuberculosis 12/21/04 10:54:06 PM Reply	Good in theory but was circumvented neatly by TRooseveldt by sending the great white fleet halfway around the world then telling congress that if they wanted the ships back they'd have to fork over the cash. Same deal - "How can you live with yourself - think of those kids over there fighting for you and you can't sign a bill to get them some decent shoes?" No, congress must approve any offensive which means soldiers don't leave base without approval. "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #187,757 by daemon 12/21/04 10:56:06 PM Reply	No the solution is dont elect people who will do that if the great unwashed cant figure that out then enjoy the body bags, regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]

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