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New Impasse. Future Fork.
Assigned task is self-cancelling.

BeeP appears to think that economic models are the (~ both 'necessary and sufficient'?) tools for making the kinds of overall-life decisions we are seen to use them for.

While I grant their limited utility in keeping track of things like humongous budgets / the 'measurement' of how successfully the Ad campaign is bringing in new money, and several other mercantile concerns - I assert that overreliance upon these models, extrapolation of their 'meaning' way too far across the boundary beyond economics - into the category of "social quality of life" - is a demonstrable (I say Major) cause of the current trend of income distribution: concentration amongst fewer and fewer. Other consequences could fill many books (and have).

I say that - it is not about refining the present model. Again. Numbers cannot measure well (if at all) the egregious social consequences of *ever* mixing pure numerical constructs and real life. (Though the Econ Model, if it's any good - Can continue to provide its limited utility, whatever changes are made to the legal constraints as diminish, correct the growth of monopoly).

BeeP's response to my criticism: ~Show me your better (economic) model (!) Tinker with the Status Quo.. a little more !! {sigh}

I guess the concept of a meta-Model escaped comprehension. Since I don't believe we Can create an *economic model* which could address these orthogonal consequences of All purely economic theory: the condition is unfulfillable.

An economic-mind is a terrible thing to waste. I'll see if I can construct a post-Revolutionary Social Contract. Sometime. Meta-Models are a bit harder than screwing with velocity of money and all those precise-sounding (but familiar!) chestnuts. (You sure as hell can't transcend the inherent limitations of The Economic Model with: The New Economic Model!)

That's how we got where we are today: homogenization, increasing monopolization of all commodity supply, Billys n'Ballys growing like Amanita mushrooms. No represenation for 'workers' - except moving from one Corp to another Corp = same rulez. No healthcare, schools in shambles, prison building a Growth industry, yada yada. Ugliness all around; little commercial boxes all with the Same Logo\ufffd and: The Mall replaces living. (Shopping as life?) Add ones I missed here ____.

E.O.T.(hread) - Need new forum: Rescuing the Murican Social Contact Y2K (from the Economists?)



Ashton
(Never mind; it won't be Popular where it matters - where the Power resides. It Won't be on any ballots Here! Blood first, I suspect.)

New No...that was NOT my response.
BeeP's response to my criticism: ~Show me your better (economic) model (!) Tinker with the Status Quo.. a little more !! {sigh}


That was most decidedly not my response.

My challenge was...

How do you propose that the human race save itself, support itself, continue to exist without some formal aspect of commerce and governance?


I'd say thats as far from "tinkering" with the status quo there is. Thats asking you to explain...(en anglais, s'il vous plait) this >ideal< that you have that you continually >sigh< about me not understanding.

Then..we can debate a plan to take us there...or at least debate its possibility of existance.

But to continually play the critic to my posts without >EVER< offering any alternative but to *sigh* at my lack of understanding and my decided lack of application of my intellectual capacity is getting pretty fucking old.

Lets talk about what >you< want...ok? Thoughts, ambitions, etc...what is it that we are doing wrong that your ideal would make right?

What do we need to do to feed everyone, cloth everyone, educate everyone and allow everyone to persue those things wwhcih will keep them happy 24/7/52/100?

Until you can offer me an alternative to even discuss...I'd say critiquing my thoughts on how to fix what we have is a tad premature, no?
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New I'll concede your phrasing there. And raise you.
Since it Was your phrasing there. :-)

I'll split the labor with you, of playing Rousseau (Anglais ou Franc\ufffdise, un peu?). I'd think we'd have to ~agree first on the dimensions and some specifics of: what IS 'wrong' / dysfunctional now - before riding off in all philosophical directions toward YAN ---> Utopia. (After having perused the sourcebook on Dystopias, in recent weeks - I know better Why I do not believe in the attainability of Models (always appreciated why that Was folly, just know better Why, now)).

Let's see what Your list of defects is, since you accuse me of assuming you have none. I cannot summarize the general case of The World and All, except as philosophical masturbation. Useless - too high a scale for homo-saps; we lack the referents.

I never imagined you didn't have such a list, just - see your main posts as ever supporting, defending the present schemes and especially: Econ rubrics across the spectrum of their consequences. (Note: that is my impression of the content of many posts, not an opinion of 'what you might actually *think*' = that rarely emerges AFAICR)

Tit for tat, oh weaver of Devils Advocacy from safe neutrality..

Over.

Duplicating this at top, per request above, to escape any possible right-shift: Hey! a few others might have ideas in pretty little heads (?) It's too Big an issue to be left to mere Economists or humble Curmudgeons ;-)
New Entropy just went up.
And it couldn't have happened to a nicer physicist :-)

Scott: Imma hunt you down and kill you twice for this :)


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Entropy decreased.
So then.. where were all them Solution Providers and *their* lists?
Do I gotta work it All out fer youse guys? Can lead a horse to manna but..

Conclusion - *nobody has any ideas. Ergo, Entropy is decreased; Answer Unearthed: World of Duality remains in perpetual low-scale psychic noise (that 3\ufffdK (3?) microwave background). Build-from or die-within.

* or is supremely disinterested in offering same == same effect.


Ashton Solution Providers
we provide the trough.
customer must drink.

:-\ufffd
Hint:
"We put all our politicians in prison as soon as they're elected. Don't you?"
"Why?"
"It saves time."
-Terry Pratchett- via Silverlock
     Hmmm. The pres says they "hate freedom" - (Silverlock) - (125)
         Gutting of the Constitution - (screamer) - (122)
             If you really feel that way... - (Silverlock) - (75)
                 As I believe has been noted before. - (Brandioch) - (21)
                     Actually things were different in WW1 and WW2 - (wharris2)
                     Minor difference... - (bepatient) - (19)
                         Why not? - (Brandioch) - (18)
                             Your decided.. - (bepatient) - (17)
                                 Reality isn't your forte. - (Brandioch) - (16)
                                     Never dealt in real estate, eh? - (bepatient) - (14)
                                         Historical side note... - (inthane-chan) - (3)
                                             And I'd bet... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                 You got it. - (inthane-chan)
                                             Re: Historical side note... - (Steve Lowe)
                                         Why the switch? - (Brandioch) - (9)
                                             Are you really.... - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                 You left out a few. - (Brandioch) - (6)
                                                     Wiretap Osama? - (wharris2)
                                                     Yawn -NT - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                         What a fscking stupid non-response - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                             To a continued - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                 C'mon BeeP - missing *all* the common denominators? - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                     I can't help blindness. - (bepatient)
                                                 actually...not that I care... - (Simon_Jester)
                                     FWIW - (admin)
                 Clarification... - (screamer) - (52)
                     Classic use of fallacy - (Silverlock) - (32)
                         Classic use of phallus... - (screamer) - (31)
                             Consistency not one of your strong points? - (Silverlock) - (15)
                                 Nahh. the pic is an insult to Zippy - (Ashton)
                                 Intelligence not one of yours? - (screamer) - (13)
                                     Evidently not - (Silverlock) - (12)
                                         I'm not done with you yet. - (screamer)
                                         One more thing... - (screamer) - (10)
                                             Ok, I'll explain - (Silverlock) - (9)
                                                 We're getting there... - (screamer) - (8)
                                                     Refreshing - (Silverlock) - (7)
                                                         Point taken... - (screamer) - (6)
                                                             Putting it to rest. - (Silverlock) - (5)
                                                                 PS to both. - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                                     Pomposity buster - (Silverlock) - (3)
                                                                         Yes.. of Course! Timeless and entirely *current* - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                                             Okay, Okay.... I'll bite... - (screamer) - (1)
                                                                                 nope there is a girl in my soup - (boxley)
                             If you can't keep up, take notes. - (jb4) - (14)
                                 Exqueeze me... Noodle man... - (screamer) - (13)
                                     Re: Exqueeze me... Noodle man... - (jb4) - (12)
                                         I guess that also extends the right... - (inthane-chan) - (8)
                                             You got it pal... - (screamer) - (7)
                                                 Which is why... - (inthane-chan) - (6)
                                                     Which is absolute and total bullshit... - (screamer) - (5)
                                                         No, I see the correlation. - (inthane-chan) - (3)
                                                             It's becoming a lovefest... :-) - (screamer) - (2)
                                                                 No more beer comments, I assure you. :P -NT - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                                                     But ya know... - (inthane-chan)
                                                         WARNING - red-herring alert! - (jb4)
                                         You don't need a license to smoke... - (screamer) - (2)
                                             Actually, I agree... - (jb4)
                                             Or: Everything not prohibited is compulsory. -NT - (Ashton)
                     Jeez Scream-ful One - I be so *ashamed* - (Ashton) - (18)
                         My, my, my... - (screamer) - (17)
                             Not my ox. That died some time ago. - (Ashton) - (16)
                                 L&COL... - (screamer) - (15)
                                     Will be on same side of barricades.. - (Ashton) - (13)
                                         Hey - <lightbulb on> - does this mean the expression... - (CRConrad) - (12)
                                             Ya gotta watch that incipient Alzheimers.. - (Ashton) - (11)
                                                 Er - (Ashton)
                                                 I think that was only the whole word I saw then? - (CRConrad) - (7)
                                                     Heh.. forgot what -- er, what you said is prolly correct :-) -NT - (Ashton)
                                                     Not that we should... - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                                         Not sure what you're unsure about. Also: need New Word! - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                             Ashcroft has at least a temporary setback. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                 The mob is very loud, though. A small step for a man - (Ashton)
                                                             About whether the idiom *actu-really does* refer to the car. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                 It do: less'n they lied to a little kid :( -NT - (Ashton)
                                                 The real D\ufffdsey -- - (Ric Locke) - (1)
                                                     Huh? Of course I did; that may be *why* I could correct him. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                     aaactuually aahm ver found of - (boxley)
             But what job is that? - (jb4) - (40)
                 Huh? - (bepatient) - (39)
                     We should conform to the herd mentality? - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                         Conform? - (bepatient)
                     And another thing... - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                         Now >that< was funny. -NT - (bepatient)
                     Er Beep: they use *Corporate money*. Umm - get it? - (Ashton) - (6)
                         Uh...yeah...I do - (bepatient) - (5)
                             If you accept what they hand you, you deserve what you get. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                 Who said anything about blind acceptance? - (bepatient) - (3)
                                     Last was restricted to your "Reality" post. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                         Hardly. -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                                             Umm.. if this-all really *were* - (Ashton)
                     Yer damn RIGHT I think they use their own money! - (jb4) - (27)
                         Ah...so.... - (bepatient) - (26)
                             I'm too lazy to look up link and Name this official fallacy - (Ashton) - (9)
                                 Why me? - (bepatient) - (8)
                                     Because.. - (Ashton) - (7)
                                         All I did... - (bepatient) - (6)
                                             Well___OK___ demi-Supreme Evil then. What - no solutions ?? -NT - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                 42 - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                     8\ufffd - It's *always* about Sex, in the End. -NT - (Ashton)
                                             Challenging a red-herring...how quaint. - (jb4) - (2)
                                                 Nah... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                     OK, but as far as a Left Fielder goes... - (jb4)
                             Counterexamples? - (jb4) - (15)
                                 Everyone else. - (bepatient) - (14)
                                     Re: Everyone else. - (jb4) - (13)
                                         Ok...your obvious counter... - (bepatient) - (12)
                                             Wow! Beep: so ya got the germ of a Solution after all? ;-) - (Ashton) - (11)
                                                 Actually... - (bepatient) - (10)
                                                     OK - it's time to come Clean. - (Ashton) - (9)
                                                         I certainly understand >that< aspect... - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                             OK. I see it's about Religious Faith in [Boxes] of any kind. - (Ashton) - (7)
                                                                 Well since you continually seem to be missing my point... - (bepatient) - (6)
                                                                     This mini thread - (Steve Lowe) - (5)
                                                                         Impasse. Future Fork. - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                                             No...that was NOT my response. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                 I'll concede your phrasing there. And raise you. - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                                                     Entropy just went up. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                         Entropy decreased. - (Ashton)
             That's right... - (Simon_Jester) - (4)
                 Let's let it die... - (screamer) - (3)
                     of course... - (Simon_Jester) - (2)
                         In the immortal words of Rodney King... - (screamer) - (1)
                             Where's my 11 million? - (bepatient)
         I've been immersed in my own work lately - (gtall) - (1)
             expanded wire tapping, detention without charges - (Silverlock)

This is a test of the Emergency LRPD System. This is only a test.
248 ms