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New No, I see the correlation.
Oliver Wendell Holmes said, "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

Now, if smoking did no harm to others, then by all means, I'd be all for you comitting suicide in whatever way you choose necessary. And I don't advocate creating "smoking laws" - the idea of creating a targeted law is exactly the kind of thing that gets us all in a lot of deep shit. We create laws that apply to "all cases, except where noted in subsections b., c., d. f.42, and this other law over here."

Get back to basics, I say.

Cut out all the crap, and instead pass a single environmental law that defines a maximum acceptible carcinogen output. I'll admit I'm pulling this idea out of my nether regions right now, so I'm not really sure how we'd benchmark that, but I'm sure something fairly reasonable could be dreamed up.

Then apply that standard across the board. You drive? It applies to you. You smoke? It applies to you as well. You piss in somebody's beer? Well, you've got other problems, in addition to the carcinogen law. :)

I'd love to have a solution without laws. The problem is, we're human beings. Anarchy is a great state, if all you've got is totally enlightened beings, which our species seems to be lacking in.

It might very well be that the carcinogen output from cars would completely blow away second-hand cigarrete smoke. I'm fine by that, and quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Cigarretes do make me personally ill, and maybe specifically attacking them is wrong - but saying that we have a "right to smoke" without regards to those around us IMO is wrong.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New It's becoming a lovefest... :-)
And yes, it would be great if we could get an "enlightened public" to be mindful of others all the time at all places. Having said all of this, I'm glad that the smoking bans are in place as well 'cause there's nothing to more annoying than walking into a smoke filled room to eat (or drink - something I personally don't do). As well, having played the "bar scene" for many years with rock bands, etc... smoking is even the more personally offensive. I've have been smoke free for about 4 months now (Zyban - which may explain my mood swings!) and this is a very touchy subject for me. The point I'm getting at though is that every little liberty that we the people are willing to cede for comfort or security, add up. Kind of like the jokes about congress "a billion here and a billion there, pretty soon your talking about real money..."

I'm getting so verbose lately thought that I'm boring myself... As stated earlier, I hope that the Silverlocks of the world are able to keep civil liberties on the "front burner" and believe it or not, I'm trying to help out by tempering the message (a political filter if you will) so it can't be easily dismissed as being just more partisan bickering...

Oh, and as a personal favor, can we agree to poopcan the beer thing. It makes me ill every time you say it... It just confirms one of my greatest fears concerning the color and smell of American beer... Please?
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer

"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..."

P. Townshend

"Nietzsche has an S in it"
Celina Jones
New No more beer comments, I assure you. :P
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New But ya know...
...it does make me wonder:

Are you more afraid I'll piss in your beer, or that you'll realize that me pissing in your beer would dramatically increase the quality of it? (Evil grin)
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
     Hmmm. The pres says they "hate freedom" - (Silverlock) - (125)
         Gutting of the Constitution - (screamer) - (122)
             If you really feel that way... - (Silverlock) - (75)
                 As I believe has been noted before. - (Brandioch) - (21)
                     Actually things were different in WW1 and WW2 - (wharris2)
                     Minor difference... - (bepatient) - (19)
                         Why not? - (Brandioch) - (18)
                             Your decided.. - (bepatient) - (17)
                                 Reality isn't your forte. - (Brandioch) - (16)
                                     Never dealt in real estate, eh? - (bepatient) - (14)
                                         Historical side note... - (inthane-chan) - (3)
                                             And I'd bet... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                 You got it. - (inthane-chan)
                                             Re: Historical side note... - (Steve Lowe)
                                         Why the switch? - (Brandioch) - (9)
                                             Are you really.... - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                 You left out a few. - (Brandioch) - (6)
                                                     Wiretap Osama? - (wharris2)
                                                     Yawn -NT - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                         What a fscking stupid non-response - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                             To a continued - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                 C'mon BeeP - missing *all* the common denominators? - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                     I can't help blindness. - (bepatient)
                                                 actually...not that I care... - (Simon_Jester)
                                     FWIW - (admin)
                 Clarification... - (screamer) - (52)
                     Classic use of fallacy - (Silverlock) - (32)
                         Classic use of phallus... - (screamer) - (31)
                             Consistency not one of your strong points? - (Silverlock) - (15)
                                 Nahh. the pic is an insult to Zippy - (Ashton)
                                 Intelligence not one of yours? - (screamer) - (13)
                                     Evidently not - (Silverlock) - (12)
                                         I'm not done with you yet. - (screamer)
                                         One more thing... - (screamer) - (10)
                                             Ok, I'll explain - (Silverlock) - (9)
                                                 We're getting there... - (screamer) - (8)
                                                     Refreshing - (Silverlock) - (7)
                                                         Point taken... - (screamer) - (6)
                                                             Putting it to rest. - (Silverlock) - (5)
                                                                 PS to both. - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                                     Pomposity buster - (Silverlock) - (3)
                                                                         Yes.. of Course! Timeless and entirely *current* - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                                             Okay, Okay.... I'll bite... - (screamer) - (1)
                                                                                 nope there is a girl in my soup - (boxley)
                             If you can't keep up, take notes. - (jb4) - (14)
                                 Exqueeze me... Noodle man... - (screamer) - (13)
                                     Re: Exqueeze me... Noodle man... - (jb4) - (12)
                                         I guess that also extends the right... - (inthane-chan) - (8)
                                             You got it pal... - (screamer) - (7)
                                                 Which is why... - (inthane-chan) - (6)
                                                     Which is absolute and total bullshit... - (screamer) - (5)
                                                         No, I see the correlation. - (inthane-chan) - (3)
                                                             It's becoming a lovefest... :-) - (screamer) - (2)
                                                                 No more beer comments, I assure you. :P -NT - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                                                     But ya know... - (inthane-chan)
                                                         WARNING - red-herring alert! - (jb4)
                                         You don't need a license to smoke... - (screamer) - (2)
                                             Actually, I agree... - (jb4)
                                             Or: Everything not prohibited is compulsory. -NT - (Ashton)
                     Jeez Scream-ful One - I be so *ashamed* - (Ashton) - (18)
                         My, my, my... - (screamer) - (17)
                             Not my ox. That died some time ago. - (Ashton) - (16)
                                 L&COL... - (screamer) - (15)
                                     Will be on same side of barricades.. - (Ashton) - (13)
                                         Hey - <lightbulb on> - does this mean the expression... - (CRConrad) - (12)
                                             Ya gotta watch that incipient Alzheimers.. - (Ashton) - (11)
                                                 Er - (Ashton)
                                                 I think that was only the whole word I saw then? - (CRConrad) - (7)
                                                     Heh.. forgot what -- er, what you said is prolly correct :-) -NT - (Ashton)
                                                     Not that we should... - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                                         Not sure what you're unsure about. Also: need New Word! - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                             Ashcroft has at least a temporary setback. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                 The mob is very loud, though. A small step for a man - (Ashton)
                                                             About whether the idiom *actu-really does* refer to the car. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                 It do: less'n they lied to a little kid :( -NT - (Ashton)
                                                 The real D\ufffdsey -- - (Ric Locke) - (1)
                                                     Huh? Of course I did; that may be *why* I could correct him. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                     aaactuually aahm ver found of - (boxley)
             But what job is that? - (jb4) - (40)
                 Huh? - (bepatient) - (39)
                     We should conform to the herd mentality? - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                         Conform? - (bepatient)
                     And another thing... - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                         Now >that< was funny. -NT - (bepatient)
                     Er Beep: they use *Corporate money*. Umm - get it? - (Ashton) - (6)
                         Uh...yeah...I do - (bepatient) - (5)
                             If you accept what they hand you, you deserve what you get. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                 Who said anything about blind acceptance? - (bepatient) - (3)
                                     Last was restricted to your "Reality" post. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                         Hardly. -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                                             Umm.. if this-all really *were* - (Ashton)
                     Yer damn RIGHT I think they use their own money! - (jb4) - (27)
                         Ah...so.... - (bepatient) - (26)
                             I'm too lazy to look up link and Name this official fallacy - (Ashton) - (9)
                                 Why me? - (bepatient) - (8)
                                     Because.. - (Ashton) - (7)
                                         All I did... - (bepatient) - (6)
                                             Well___OK___ demi-Supreme Evil then. What - no solutions ?? -NT - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                 42 - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                     8\ufffd - It's *always* about Sex, in the End. -NT - (Ashton)
                                             Challenging a red-herring...how quaint. - (jb4) - (2)
                                                 Nah... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                     OK, but as far as a Left Fielder goes... - (jb4)
                             Counterexamples? - (jb4) - (15)
                                 Everyone else. - (bepatient) - (14)
                                     Re: Everyone else. - (jb4) - (13)
                                         Ok...your obvious counter... - (bepatient) - (12)
                                             Wow! Beep: so ya got the germ of a Solution after all? ;-) - (Ashton) - (11)
                                                 Actually... - (bepatient) - (10)
                                                     OK - it's time to come Clean. - (Ashton) - (9)
                                                         I certainly understand >that< aspect... - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                             OK. I see it's about Religious Faith in [Boxes] of any kind. - (Ashton) - (7)
                                                                 Well since you continually seem to be missing my point... - (bepatient) - (6)
                                                                     This mini thread - (Steve Lowe) - (5)
                                                                         Impasse. Future Fork. - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                                             No...that was NOT my response. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                 I'll concede your phrasing there. And raise you. - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                                                     Entropy just went up. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                         Entropy decreased. - (Ashton)
             That's right... - (Simon_Jester) - (4)
                 Let's let it die... - (screamer) - (3)
                     of course... - (Simon_Jester) - (2)
                         In the immortal words of Rodney King... - (screamer) - (1)
                             Where's my 11 million? - (bepatient)
         I've been immersed in my own work lately - (gtall) - (1)
             expanded wire tapping, detention without charges - (Silverlock)

Research conducted at the University of Oxford has proven conclusively that a cat on a table will inevitably push anything on it off the edge and onto the floor.

“The only obvious conclusion that we have been able to come to is that the Earth must be ball shaped, or cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.”
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