Exqueeze me... Noodle man...

Post #18,398 by screamer 11/15/01 9:58:54 AM Reply	Exqueeze me... Noodle man... I have the right to do anything I damn well please until someone tells me it's illegal... It was perfectly fine and dandy to smoke anywhere until the late '80's and '90's. While you may not perceive that as a right, you'd be wrong. I could smoke cigs in public until the Bush/Clinton admin if I so desired. Reason it was brought up ... as it has been before, where the hell were you when this right was taken away? It probably didn't bother you 'cause you didn't smoke... You claim you have the "right" not to breath second hand smoke where it never existed before... OH? By what magic "right" did this happen? Which is exactly what is happening now with the perceived "rights" of people to privacy - albeit that privacy is more universal and sexy than smoking... See my point. Or do you want me to go through this again but more slowly... Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
Post #18,436 by jb4 11/15/01 2:16:30 PM Reply	Re: Exqueeze me... Noodle man... So you claim to have the right to drive a car (or an 18-wheeler, for that matter)? jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #18,440 by inthane-chan 11/15/01 2:43:32 PM Reply	I guess that also extends the right... ...to own, concentrate, and release into the environment substances that are toxic to others? "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #18,449 by screamer 11/15/01 4:09:14 PM Reply	You got it pal... now give me your car keys... Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
Post #18,452 by inthane-chan 11/15/01 4:28:54 PM Reply	Which is why... ...we have emissions tests here in Washington state as a prerequisite to relicensing, and California is forcing automakers to move towards zero-emission vehicles. My father chain-smoked while I was growing up. I was frickin' miserable the whole time, and couldn't stand it. He finally quit when I was around 20. If you have a right to blow smoke in my face, (smoking not being an essential service - transportation is a HELL of a lot more essential than smoking) I have a right to urinate in your beer. So, where do you keep your supply? "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #18,456 by screamer 11/15/01 5:18:20 PM Reply	Which is absolute and total bullshit... you have no "right" to do anything if we view the world from your myopic perspective. Everything is a priviledge unless YOU deem it okay? Is this how it works? Or are YOU now gonna hide behind the "oppressive majority" to claim your rights? If so, then screw you when you need my help... Isn't this how it works? My dad chainsmoked too. I hated it. I also hate loud music in cars. I also hate people who wear too much perfume. I also hate people who don't open doors for other people. You know what, so fucking what? When you use legislation to cram stupid laws down people's throats because of the way the political wind is blowing, then you end up giving up rights... Again, which is my point. If you are not willing to defend the unpopular ones, where is the consistency in that. Why do I care if YOUR privacy is infringed? I mean, I have nothing to hide, let 'em bug me all they want... In any event, if you can't see the correlation, I'm not going to belittle this any further. And as far as you beer pissing, I'd just throw it in your face anyway... Then blow smoke on you. Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
Post #18,457 by inthane-chan 11/15/01 5:29:54 PM Reply	No, I see the correlation. Oliver Wendell Holmes said, "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins." Now, if smoking did no harm to others, then by all means, I'd be all for you comitting suicide in whatever way you choose necessary. And I don't advocate creating "smoking laws" - the idea of creating a targeted law is exactly the kind of thing that gets us all in a lot of deep shit. We create laws that apply to "all cases, except where noted in subsections b., c., d. f.42, and this other law over here." Get back to basics, I say. Cut out all the crap, and instead pass a single environmental law that defines a maximum acceptible carcinogen output. I'll admit I'm pulling this idea out of my nether regions right now, so I'm not really sure how we'd benchmark that, but I'm sure something fairly reasonable could be dreamed up. Then apply that standard across the board. You drive? It applies to you. You smoke? It applies to you as well. You piss in somebody's beer? Well, you've got other problems, in addition to the carcinogen law. :) I'd love to have a solution without laws. The problem is, we're human beings. Anarchy is a great state, if all you've got is totally enlightened beings, which our species seems to be lacking in. It might very well be that the carcinogen output from cars would completely blow away second-hand cigarrete smoke. I'm fine by that, and quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Cigarretes do make me personally ill, and maybe specifically attacking them is wrong - but saying that we have a "right to smoke" without regards to those around us IMO is wrong. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #18,464 by screamer 11/15/01 6:14:17 PM Reply	It's becoming a lovefest... :-) And yes, it would be great if we could get an "enlightened public" to be mindful of others all the time at all places. Having said all of this, I'm glad that the smoking bans are in place as well 'cause there's nothing to more annoying than walking into a smoke filled room to eat (or drink - something I personally don't do). As well, having played the "bar scene" for many years with rock bands, etc... smoking is even the more personally offensive. I've have been smoke free for about 4 months now (Zyban - which may explain my mood swings!) and this is a very touchy subject for me. The point I'm getting at though is that every little liberty that we the people are willing to cede for comfort or security, add up. Kind of like the jokes about congress "a billion here and a billion there, pretty soon your talking about real money..." I'm getting so verbose lately thought that I'm boring myself... As stated earlier, I hope that the Silverlocks of the world are able to keep civil liberties on the "front burner" and believe it or not, I'm trying to help out by tempering the message (a political filter if you will) so it can't be easily dismissed as being just more partisan bickering... Oh, and as a personal favor, can we agree to poopcan the beer thing. It makes me ill every time you say it... It just confirms one of my greatest fears concerning the color and smell of American beer... Please? Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
Post #18,476 by inthane-chan 11/15/01 7:11:27 PM Reply	No more beer comments, I assure you. :P "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #18,493 by inthane-chan 11/15/01 9:36:31 PM Reply	But ya know... ...it does make me wonder: Are you more afraid I'll piss in your beer, or that you'll realize that me pissing in your beer would dramatically increase the quality of it? (Evil grin) "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #18,470 by jb4 11/15/01 6:48:10 PM Reply	WARNING - red-herring alert! Instead of: [...]you have no "right" to do anything if we view the world from your myopic perspective. Everything is a priviledge [sic] unless YOU deem it okay? Is this how it works? Or are YOU now gonna hide behind the "oppressive majority" to claim your rights? If so, then screw you when you need my help... Isn't this how it works? How' bout you answer the question: Where's your beer supply? jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #18,451 by screamer 11/15/01 4:17:34 PM Reply	You don't need a license to smoke... But since we brought this up, the topic of what is a "right" or a "priviledge" is a good one to have. Probably not in the War On Terrorism forum, but good nonetheless... If you are asking about the right to drive, no, I'd say that you have a right to receive a license if you meet the requirements and follow the rules of your state. But since we have juxtaposed cars into this smoking equation, you still have the right to pollute my air with yours... Much more toxically (a word?) than any second hand smoke can... so by all rights, and using the same logic as was used to ban smoking in public, we should be able to ban motor vehicles for the "second hand smoke" they produce, right? Oh, that would be umpopular, wouldn't it... Politics... Go figure. Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
Post #18,472 by jb4 11/15/01 6:50:21 PM Reply	Actually, I agree... I would support a law prohibiting driving a polluting vehicle indoors.... jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #18,481 by Ashton 11/15/01 8:11:31 PM Reply	Or: Everything not prohibited is compulsory.

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