Question

Post #179,039 by pwhysall 10/13/04 1:58:07 AM Reply	Question Does the US voter registration form require one to indicate one's political affinity? Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home]
Post #179,044 by Andrew Grygus 10/13/04 3:56:57 AM Reply	Yes [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #179,047 by pwhysall 10/13/04 5:32:17 AM Reply	Pardon my Freedom I mean "French". Short version: WHAT THE FUCK!? You have to indicate your political leanings to REGISTER as a voter? That. Is. Fucked. In. The. Head. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home]
Post #179,048 by Meerkat 10/13/04 5:34:00 AM Reply	Stunned. Guys, leave that country, now. Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #179,076 by Andrew Grygus 10/13/04 10:17:23 AM Reply	You can claim "independent" . . . . but then you can't vote in party primaries (some states differ). The party declaration is to select which ballot you get in the primaries. Personally, I'm a registered Republican because that seemed the most absurd thing to do then, and much more so now. It has the advantage that I get all the mailings and things sent to the party faithful. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #179,087 by pwhysall 10/13/04 11:42:06 AM Reply	Question. Why is that on the registration form at all? Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home]
Post #179,089 by Andrew Grygus 10/13/04 11:55:06 AM Reply	Many states have "closed primaries" . . . . where you may only vote for candidates for the party you are registered with ("independents" don't get to vote for any primary candidates). The registration form is the logical place to gather this information from. The theory is that in "open primaries", crossover voters could pack the vote for the candidate they think has the least chance of winning against their chosen candidate in the final elections. Up to the final election, the parties consider their candidates their own property and not open to the influence of outsiders. In the final election all voters get the exact same ballot (discounting election fraud). I am not endorsing the political party system here, only stating the situation as it is. If all primaries were converted to "open" this information would no longer be needed. Too many have vested interests for this to happen. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #179,116 by pwhysall 10/13/04 1:37:33 PM Reply	Am I correct in thinking, then... ...that I'm not the first person to observe that this is Nucking Futs? Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home]
Post #179,132 by inthane-chan 10/13/04 2:11:46 PM Reply	Yes, you are. No, you are not.
Post #179,133 by Simon_Jester 10/13/04 2:14:25 PM Reply	You're not the first.... but, to play devil's advocate, the concept is that the party is a semi-private organization. If you're not a member why would you get a say in what leader the party is putting forth as their candidate (ie: go make up your own party and choose your own candidate). The flip side is that, in American politics, there's pretty much 2 parties and that's it (most attempts at a 3rd party fail). So, if you're not a member, you don't get a say (vote) in the primaries. Shrug. It's not a huge issue for anyone, as it's not THAT hard to cross party lines (I'm a Republican...no wait, I'm a Democrat...no wait!)
Post #179,134 by Andrew Grygus 10/13/04 2:15:01 PM Reply	Opinions vary all over the map, as do state laws . . . . but the major parties are pretty firm on wanting closed primaries so it's not going to change any time soon. California in 1998 passed a completely open primary initiative that allowed you to vote a mix of candidates and was immediately sued by both major political parties. A U.S. Judge and the subsequent appeals court upheld the California law, but the U.S. Supreme Court (yes, the same one that appointed W President) said that violated "free association" and forced the political parties to "associate" with persons with philosophies they did not agree with. California has a [link\|http://reforminstitute.org/cgi-data/issues/files/14.shtml\|rewritten initiative] in the works now for a second try. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #179,135 by inthane-chan 10/13/04 2:18:06 PM Reply	I'm in agreement with the decision... ...but the problem is, they didn't follow it to the logical conclusion: Primaries should be held and funded by the party in question, not by the state. All I want for my birthday is a new President!
Post #179,154 by jake123 10/13/04 3:22:58 PM Reply	There's an even simpler method to deal with this. You become a member of the party by joining it, and paying a fee. In my country, the fee may not be penurious in any way; for example, to join the Liberal Party of Canada for one year costs five bucks. Once you're a member, you get to participate. And yes, things like leadership votes, riding association nominations, etc are all paid for by the party in question. For the actual voter registration for an actual general election (be it at the riding, municipal, federal/provincial level), party membership information is not collected and if inadvertently gained must be discarded immediately. In fact, the person in charge of Elections Canada is not even permitted to vote. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #179,155 by pwhysall 10/13/04 3:33:21 PM Reply	Nod. That's how it is here. Registering to vote is a non-partisan act. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home]
Post #179,470 by lincoln 10/15/04 6:10:19 PM Reply	Question: to join the Liberal Party of Canada for one year costs five bucks Is that a one time only fee, or an annual fee? lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #179,474 by ben_tilly 10/15/04 6:27:26 PM Reply	That isn't clear from the sentence quoted??? The words for one year are highly suggestive... Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #179,156 by Andrew Grygus 10/13/04 3:33:47 PM Reply	And there you have it. If the taxpayers are paying for the primaries, the taxpayers should get to set the rules. If that isn't satisfactory to the parties, they should pay for their own primaries and have their own way with them. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #179,109 by mmoffitt 10/13/04 12:56:33 PM Reply	Your "vote" is protected. Party affiliation is not. bcnu, Mikem "The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism." -Ted Grant
Post #179,169 by daemon 10/13/04 5:46:47 PM Reply	no, repo demo unafiliated
Post #179,171 by andread 10/13/04 6:01:03 PM Reply	Yes -- is not the answer Actually the answer is no, at least in NY also many states have open primaries where any voter can vote (in one primary) this to me is worse than closed primaries as I do not want a bunch of Republicans selecting the Democratic nominee, also if you don't pick a party why should you be able to pick the parties candidates I'd be surprised if any state forced you to pick a party but I've been surprised before A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #179,059 by GBert 10/13/04 7:44:50 AM Reply	AFAIK they don't require it -- but they do ask [link\|http://election.dos.state.fl.us/regtovote/webappform.pdf\|Here's] one from Florida in pdf form. Giovanni Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for. You don't need George Bush for that.
Post #179,062 by Yendor 10/13/04 8:40:53 AM Reply	Not here in Illinois you don't... [link\|http://www.elections.state.il.us/elecinfo/pages/downloads/pdf/R-19.pdf\|Here] is the Illinois Voter Registration Application R-19. Nowhere on there does it ask for your party affiliation. I've been registered to vote in 3 states during my lifetime (New Jersey, Texas, and Illinois.) The only times I ever had to say which party I was voting for was during primaries, where you're only allowed to vote for one set of candidates. That does not necessarily declare your party affiliation, however, because you could be a life-long fully-registered Republican, but if you want to vote in the Democratic primary to attempt to get "the easier guy for your guy to beat" to win the Democratic primary, I've never heard of any laws disallowing that. -YendorMike "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Post #179,088 by Arkadiy 10/13/04 11:43:53 AM Reply	Not require. Allow That is done for primaries. I am registered as "Independent" now. (no, not a member of "Independent" party. Just not affiliated. Talk about domain name squatting) -- ... a reference to Presidente Arbusto. -- [link\|http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001417.html\|Geoffrey K. Pullum]

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