came to what and when?

Post #151,672 by boxley 4/18/04 8:35:04 PM Reply	came to what and when? They came to a desert bought land, cultivated it and only defended after attack upon attack by folks brought there by greed who wanted what another had built without doing the work themselves. That was the origin until statehood. After statehood land was grabbed and people killed, but the Arabs were on the offense until 1948. After that they went on offence many times but lost many times. When the Jews were going into camps during the War the Mufti Of Jerusalem was there inviting the Germans to come and finish the group in the ME. I have sympathy for the current folks but non at all for the people that brought them to their current impasse. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #151,685 by a6l6e6x 4/18/04 9:36:34 PM Reply	That's a false premise. [link\|http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/jewsfjustice.cfm\|Jews For Justice In The Middle East]: The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine to reclaim their ancestral homeland in the late 19th century. Jews bought land and started building their Jewish community their. They were net with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs` inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today. The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet shall show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present). The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence to Arab society in Palestine.Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the Population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century (over 1200 years). In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world-view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn\ufffdt matter. The Arabs` opposition to Zionism wasn\ufffdt based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people. Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #151,688 by boxley 4/18/04 9:39:03 PM Reply	well nicely worded spin to fit your view but we have been down this path before. The british actively helping the Jews? When the Jordanian officer corp was to a man British Army after 48 I tend to doubt that. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #151,690 by a6l6e6x 4/18/04 9:52:13 PM Reply	Did you get to the Balfour Declaration part? Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #151,709 by boxley 4/18/04 11:15:46 PM Reply	when do my wife and kids get to move in upstairs? Balfour, the Jews get everything wast of the Jordan the Arabs everything east. When does it go into effect? people pay cash for dirt. They spend more cash for more dirt. The locals dont like it start attacking the newcomers. Sounds like upstate NY and the Mowhawks to me. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #151,841 by a6l6e6x 4/19/04 5:47:20 PM Reply	The Balfour Declaration was just an idiot's thought. It has no meaningful significance. Makes as much sense as Bush declaring the Sunni triangle in Iraq as the new homeland for US illegals from Mexico. Populating the cradle of civilization and all. Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #151,868 by boxley 4/19/04 10:25:01 PM Reply	As long as Rceaga has a history of belonging in Falujah that the western world celebrates twice a year with lots of rejoiceing in and fingering their knives and muttering in their beards about those despicable Mexicans running the world, let them move there. You cant be hosannaing the christ one minute and then claim Jews dont belong in JUDEAH the next. Pick one story to beleive in and stick with it. Next thing you will tell me that manifest destiny was ordained by whities god to use the good land the Indians didnt use efficiently. Jews needed a homeland, not welcome anywhere else as equal citizens so might as well let them have the one they always lived in before several other attempts to evict them permanently. The locals could have made welcome, as prior to 600AD they probably were the same folk. Their leaders determined otherwise and made a determined effort AGAIN to rid them from the soil. They killed everyone in Hebron, they killed all in Safed who NEVER LEFT in the years PRIOR to 1948 from the roman evictions. As expected the cousins who had been living elsewhere until they PAID for their dirt and moved in took exception. No matter all your distaste and hatred for Sharon and his despicable acts does not entitle you to kill all the Jews who dare set foot in Israel. Or to place people in charge whose only goal is to kill all the Jews in Israel and make sure all the rest of the jews be moved there to be killed. What is happening is wrong and will be sorted out but not by Hamas, Sharon and Arafat and Hizbullah, the sooner they die and determined men in the PA take over with pragmatic vision there will be Palestine. The dinosaurs have to become extinct first. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #151,874 by a6l6e6x 4/19/04 10:48:08 PM Reply	In the words of Mordechai Vanunu: Via [link\|http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3640989.stm\|BBC]: "We don't need a Jewish state," he said. "There needs to be a Palestinian state." He added that there was no need for him to reveal anything more about Israel's nuclear programme, as the US and Europe already had all the information they needed. "Despite everything that was published, nothing changed - no one came to Israel and made [disarmament] demands," he said. Among government restrictions to be placed on Mr Vanunu's movements are thought to be a ban on going abroad, on speaking to foreigners and on getting within a hundred yards of any foreign embassy in Israel in case he should seek asylum. 'Totalitarian' state A brother of the former technician, Meir, said it was "scandalous" that Shin Bet - the internal security service - had allowed the interrogation to be broadcast. "This reminds one of the methods of a totalitarian country," he told AFP news agency. Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #151,877 by boxley 4/19/04 11:34:04 PM Reply	so you agree that only arabs who want to kill all jews are the only ones entiltled to rule over the jews then with real regret you can say you didnt mean for them all to die. I know you are not like this so I will exit this sub thread, thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #151,886 by a6l6e6x 4/20/04 1:11:14 AM Reply	That's not what the man is saying. No one is killing anyone. He is proposing the "one state", I think sectarian, solution. The summabitch converted to Christianity in prison. I ask you to one more time to think about the [link\|http://savvytraveler.publicradio.org/show/features/2002/20020503/interview3.shtml\|synagogue in Tunisia] that was attacked by al Qaeda. There's been a Jewish community there for 2500 years (i.e. from a prior Diaspora). So Jews can coexist with the "goyem" with reasonable harmony. I'll grant you it's become more difficult since the creation of Israel and word of its atrocities spreading. Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #151,892 by bluke 4/20/04 2:16:28 AM Reply	I guess the existence of Israel was responsible for... The crusades, the Spanish inqi=uisition and expulsion of Jews from Spain, teh pogroms in Russia in the 1880's, the Holocaust etc.
Post #151,958 by a6l6e6x 4/20/04 3:56:41 PM Reply	Did I say that? :) Or deny that the events you cite occurred? Lot's of minorities have suffered at the hands of majorities, or the powerful, or the religious. So it's your turn to do the same and annihilate the pesky Palestinians and everybody else shut the fuck up? Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #151,889 by bluke 4/20/04 2:11:58 AM Reply	Instead they should have executed him ... like the US did to the Rosenberg's
Post #151,959 by a6l6e6x 4/20/04 3:57:38 PM Reply	I agree, it would have been in character. Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #152,039 by bluke 4/21/04 2:42:52 AM Reply	Actually not considering that Israel has no death penalty It is very much in character for the US where even retarded teen age criminals are exexcuted.
Post #152,051 by Another Scott 4/21/04 7:11:47 AM Reply	Since when? Honest question. I thought one of the Nazi war criminals (I've forgotten his name) was hung in Israel. Cheers, Scott.
Post #152,081 by bluke 4/21/04 12:23:54 PM Reply	He was Israel has the death penalty in law for only two crimes - Nazi war crimes, and cases of "extreme terrorism." In all its history the State of Israel has conducted only one judicial execution - that of the Nazi Adolph Eichmann. What this means is that for all intents and purposes Israel does not have a death penalty even though officially the law is on the books.
Post #152,181 by a6l6e6x 4/21/04 11:56:59 PM Reply	Not counting summary executions without trial of any... Palestinain that happens to be in sight. Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #152,201 by boxley 4/22/04 8:21:56 AM Reply	bargouti ring a bell, he was summarily killed? Arafat? attempting to explain profiling doesn't require one to take a position for or against it any more than attempting to explain gravity requires one to be for or against gravity. Walter Williams questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #152,241 by a6l6e6x 4/22/04 3:04:03 PM Reply	Re: Arafat? Sharon needs Arafat. It was explained in Haaretz yesterday and I should have linked it. As long as Arafat is around, Sharon need not talk to Palestinians and just keep killing and robbing them of dignity, livelihood, and land. The best thing for some Palestinian to do would be to knock off Arafat. Barghouti is the back up for Arafat in case someone does take out Arafat. Sharon was not born yesterday. Alex Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
Post #151,890 by bluke 4/20/04 2:14:29 AM Reply	Considering that the British and the French drew ... all the lines in the Middle East and much of Africa at that time, let's just redo everything. After al who gave them the right ot create Iraq or draw the border between Syria and Palestine and Lebanon, etc. Iraq was a creation of the British (if I am not mistaken Winston Churchill) to safeguard the oil there.

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