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New You should read Vaknin's entire work
I think he is the most profound psychological thinker alive. He is not a psychiatrist.

Unfortunately, "do it for the kids" is a far too feeble reason for a narcissist to change. That is why you'll usually find an entire family of narcissists when you find an individual. The cold-blooded symbiotic ruthlessness of these families has to be experienced to be understood. An outsider might as well be a piece of furniture. Nothing of his is valued, not even the outsider's family heirlooms and memorobilia. The human race ends at the family branch.

According to Vaknin, only insistent, brutal confrontation can force a narcissist into change.

The scary thing is - our entire society is set up to reward not just superficial narcissism (clothes, youth culture, etc.) but the pernicious psychological syndrome of narcissism itself. You will see that Vaknin makes deep observation that extreme conformity and conservatism in the reactionary sense is one of the characteristic hallmarks of narcissism. Our country itself can be said to be suffering from advanced narcissism. This provides a perfect explanation of how these flag waving jingoists can at the same time be virulently anti-American in the true sense - the America loved by the narcissist is the image of America that conceals the fact of bursting prisons, extreme classism based on wealth, and brutal, cold-blooded lack of concern for other nations in the real sense.
-drl
New Oh, I've experienced it. Trust me on this. :-(
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
     Before the year is out, I'll beat you to it. - (orion) - (56)
         Oh, stop wallowing in self pity . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (15)
             You are, of course, correct, except for one thing - (orion) - (14)
                 I used to wallow in self pity . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (4)
                     Re: I used to wallow in self pity . . - (deSitter)
                     The difference seems to be - (orion) - (2)
                         Re: The difference seems to be - (Nightowl) - (1)
                             A friend of mine didn't do that - (orion)
                 YOU WERE NEVER INSANE - (deSitter) - (8)
                     You do not even know me that well - (orion) - (6)
                         wanker != insane -NT - (pwhysall)
                         Re: You do not even know me that well - (deSitter) - (2)
                             There is temporary insanity - (orion) - (1)
                                 No, there is not - (deSitter)
                         The word you are looking for is not 'insane' . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                             I'll agree with that - (orion)
                     Depression & Enjoyment - (Nightowl)
         Grow up. -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
             I've tried - (orion)
         Tell it to someone who cares - (Silverlock) - (26)
             actually I care - (deSitter) - (23)
                 I gave up on him a while ago - (Silverlock)
                 As I have said before - (orion) - (17)
                     Re: As I have said before - (deSitter) - (16)
                         Don't you think I've tried? - (orion) - (15)
                             No I don't - (deSitter) - (14)
                                 The problem - (orion) - (13)
                                     Re: The problem - (deSitter) - (3)
                                         Self-Involvement isn't even a word - (orion) - (2)
                                             Re: Self-Involvement isn't even a word - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                 You asked for it - (orion)
                                     Schizoaffective disorder - (deSitter)
                                     Narcissistic neurosis - (deSitter)
                                     And right there is your fuck-up, in spades - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                         Maybe you are right - (orion) - (1)
                                             There is no if about it - (ben_tilly)
                                         You should read Vaknin's entire work - (deSitter) - (1)
                                             Oh, I've experienced it. Trust me on this. :-( -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                     This is the MOST important thing to remember - (Nightowl) - (1)
                                         I know that - (orion)
                 The only opinion about Norm that matters is Norm's. - (Silverlock) - (3)
                     Go soak your head - (orion) - (2)
                         Was I talking to you? -NT - (Silverlock) - (1)
                             You posted on the thread - (orion)
             Re: Tell it to someone who cares - (Nightowl) - (1)
                 Thank you for caring (new thread) - (orion)
         Yes. -NT - (Arkadiy) - (2)
             Thank you Mr. Perfect :) -NT - (orion)
             I wish that my slap in the face would help. - (Arkadiy)
         Flaming yourself is illegal. GDTJ. DNPG. DNC$200. -NT - (Another Scott)
         Norm, just change your name to Ginger -NT - (boxley) - (3)
             No can do - (orion) - (2)
                 google Larson, Far side, ginger -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                     Funny -NT - (orion)
         Here we go again. - (Steve Lowe) - (1)
             I'll post this once (new thread) - (orion)
         And I have this to say, Norman - (Nightowl)

This is Helena.
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