Jihad is not a holy war, read on...

Post #128,194 by orion 11/30/03 9:09:15 PM Reply	Jihad is not a holy war, read on... Someone may twist the definition of a Jihad but it is not suppoed to be a holy war: [link\|http://www.proislam.com/column_jihad.htm\|http://www.proislam.com/column_jihad.htm] No matter how many times Muslims say it, no one will listen. Jihad does not mean holy war. The term jihad is not English; it is Arabic. Jihad translates into English as \ufffdstruggle.\ufffd It is a word that expresses the Muslim need to struggle against his or her inner desires for the good of community and humanity. The more popular \ufffdholy war\ufffd is a western adaptation. Now people like Osama have twisted it from a struggle into a Holy War to wipe out other cultures and religions from the face of the planet. Not every Muslim thinks that way. Good anology, not every Christian thinks the way they should either. Jesus is not the God of wealth, Satan takes that role. I am poor, but I am proud. Jesus isn't going to give me money, but eternal life were I will never hunger, thirst, or die. I see that are more valuable than wealth. Wealth is only temporary, it only lasts a lifetime and after you die, your relatives and friends fight over who gets what. Jesus has a rejection of wealth, rather to give it up to help the needy. Almost Buddist-like in a way of rejecting wealth and material things. More Spiritual things than material ones. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #128,212 by gdaustin 11/30/03 11:19:10 PM Reply	I understand Jihad... Jihad is a "holy struggle against evil". For moderate or liberal Muslims, this is a spiritual "good and evil" struggle, mostly fought in the head, in the heart, and defeated by prayer and study of the Quran. For extreme Muslims, Jihad is literally a fight to the death. The problem I have is that, in Christianity, we treat people who claim Jesus as Lord and Savior, then kill, hate, and destroy other people as non-Christians. Christianity has it's own struggle against the forces of Satan, and for the huge majority of us, that's a spiritual struggle, also. But, if someone comes claiming Jesus as Lord, then hating a person, it makes about as much sense as the aliens in Mars Attacks, who tell people "we come in peace, take us to your leader", then bring out their ray guns and kill all the Congressmen. I guess the problem I have with the Muslims is that even the extreme factions of Islam that believe in Jihad are still considered "brothers in the faith". Osama Bin Laden is not considered a heretic by most of the clerics in Islam. They accept that his "struggle" is real, with guns and bombs, and that's OK. Funding pours out of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Iran to keep him operating. That "struggle" is a real fight for a lot of Muslims. How many Christians would accept Branch Davidians (David Koresh, Waco) as Christian Brothers? Glen Austin
Post #128,331 by a6l6e6x 12/1/03 4:04:22 PM Reply	And this explains the Crusader's sacking of Zara... and [link\|http://www.roman-empire.net/constant/1203-1204.html\|Constantinople] during the Fourth Crusade how? Those were Christian cities at the time by the way. Alex "Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves." -- Eric Hoffer
Post #128,425 by orion 12/2/03 1:41:49 AM Reply	Not all Christians do that The problem I have is that, in Christianity, we treat people who claim Jesus as Lord and Savior, then kill, hate, and destroy other people as non-Christians. I don't kill, hate, or destroy non-Christians. I have a Buddist brother-in-law and know many Buddists. My religion is not theirs, yet sometimes my wife and I take some Thai Buddist Monks out for lunch. I have friends of many faiths. I don't try and convert people to Christianity, not unless they have decided to do so themselves. I cannot force them to make that decision. I can tell them about my relationship with Jesus and how it effects me. I don't even hate the Athesists who call me a Dim because I believe in God. Even if I think it is a not so nice way to describe someone who doesn't believe the same as them. I don't think non-believers are stupid because they don't believe in Jesus, for example. I think that thinking they are stupid is wrong. The Branch Davidians didn't have a whole network of terrorists that spans many countries. They were just a bunch of Religious Zealots with guns, and their leader thought he was Jesus reborn. Other Muslims may fear Osama and his terrorist network. They see him as a scholar who has studied scripture. I tell you this, nothing good can ever come from something made of hate and intolerance. Their religion teaches them to respect scholars, to also follow them. I agree that they should reject him because he is not being true to Islam. It must be a political thing, that if they did so, he would have his network attack them, just like they are attacking Iraq. Imagine if the Davidians told the 700 Club to support them or else they will send armed members over to kill them. This is what I think is happening to other Muslims. We simply cannot declare war on Islam and the whole Muslim world. We should find allies in the Muslim world to combat the terrorists. I can see why no interest was chanrged on the money sent to Iraq, it is against Islam to charge interest on a loan. They made it a grant to get the Iraqi people on their side. So it is more of a PR thing, but it is costing us billions to do it. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #128,214 by JayMehaffey 12/1/03 12:26:39 AM Reply	Jihad is a word with more then one meaning Good anology, not every Christian thinks the way they should either. There is a subtle difference between believing your understanding of something is correct and believing that somebody that holds a different one must be wrong. The difference has a lot to do with pride, in the Christian sin sense of the word. Someone may twist the definition of a Jihad but it is not suppoed to be a holy war The usage of the word 'jihad' varies between the major two branchs of the Islamic faith. The Sunni use the word in the 'holy war' sense and use the 'inner struggle' sense only in a minor way if at all. The Sufi often use the word in the 'inner struggle' sense first, 'holy war' second. The ProIslam site you linked to appears to be very Sufi. I would almost go so far as to say it's intentionally over stating it's case. Take this page [link\|http://www.proislam.com/dawah_warfare.htm\|Islam, Warfare and Jihad]. The author quotes 2:190 and 2:192-193 but skips 2:191 which goes like this. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. In the same pattern he quotes 4:75 which tells followers of Islam to free the opprosed, but skips 4:76 which reads Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak. and that is rather general clearance to fight anybody that doesn't follow Islam. No mention at all is to be found of 8:65 where god tells the prophet to urge believers to war nor any mention of 5:33 where god proclaims that those that wage war against Allah should be murdered among other penalties. The Islamic faith covers as broad a spectrum of beliefs as the Christian religion. Both violent and non-violent beliefs are to be found in both groups. Here is the [link\|http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/koran.html\|Koran] I referenced for english translations, Koran references are chapter:line. Jay

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